Out of the mouths of assholes

[shiva2999]

 

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/09/09/nato-chief-nato-expansion-caused-russian-invasion/

NATO Chief: NATO Expansion Caused Russian Invasion

September 9, 2023

 

by Caitlin Johnstone

 

During a speech at the E.U. Parliament’s foreign affairs committee on Thursday, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg clearly and repeatedly acknowledged that Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine because of fears of NATO expansionism.

His comments, initially flagged by journalist Thomas Fazi, read as follows:

“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.”

 

https://twitter.com/battleforeurope/status/1700092944714273049

Stoltenberg made these remarks as part of a general gloat about the fact that Putin invaded Ukraine to prevent NATO expansion and yet the invasion has resulted in Sweden and Finland applying to join the alliance, saying it “demonstrates that when President Putin invaded a European country to prevent more NATO, he’s getting the exact opposite.”

Stoltenberg’s remarks would probably have been classified as Russian propaganda by plutocrat-funded “disinformation experts” and imperial “fact checkers” if it had been said online by someone like you or me, but because it came from the head of NATO as part of a screed against the Russian president it’s been allowed to pass through without objection.

In reality Stoltenberg is just stating a well-established fact: contrary to the official western narrative, Putin invaded Ukraine not because he is evil and hates freedom but because no great power ever allows foreign military threats to amass on its borders ?—? including the United States.

That’s why so many western analysts and officials spent years warning that NATO’s actions were going to provoke a war, and yet when war broke out we were slammed with a tsunami of mass media propaganda repeating over and over and over again that this was an “unprovoked invasion”.

It would have been so very, very easy to prevent this horrific war. Off-ramp after off-ramp after off-ramp was passed to get us to where we’re at now. Chance after chance after chance to avoid all this pointless death and misery was passed up, both before 2014 and every year since.

The U.S.-centralized power structure knowingly chose this war, and it did so to advance its own interests. If people really, deeply understood this, the entire western empire would collapse.

 

https://twitter.com/LeaderMcConnell/status/1699825906846437784

It’s the damnedest thing how you’ll get called a Kremlin agent for saying that this war was provoked by NATO expansionism and that it serves U.S. interests, even when NATO openly says this war was provoked by NATO expansionism and U.S. officials keep openly saying that this war serves U.S. interests.

The latest entry in the latter category came in the form of a Thursday tweet by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, which reads, “Standing with our allies against Russian aggression isn’t charity. In fact?—?it’s a direct investment in replenishing America’s arsenal with American weapons built by American workers. Expanding our defense industrial base puts America in a stronger position to out-compete China.”

 

When official authorized narrative-makers acknowledge these things it’s okay, but when normal human beings do it it’s Kremlin disinformation. This is because when the authorized narrative-makers do it they’re doing it to advance the information interests of the U.S. empire?—?to explain to war-weary Americans how this war benefits their country, or to mock Putin’s failure to stop the enlargement of NATO?—?whereas when normal people do it it’s to establish what’s true and factual.

This all happens as a study sponsored by the EU with a group funded by U.S. oligarch Pierre Omidyar is being circulated by mass media outlets like The Washington Post finding that Twitter under Elon Musk has not been doing enough to censor “Russian propaganda” on the platform. This would put Musk in violation of the European Union’s Digital Services Act, which requires platforms to restrict such materials.

 

https://twitter.com/SystemUpdate_/status/1699834217415217488

As Glenn Greenwald has noted, the Digital Services Act defines “Russian propaganda” so extremely broadly that it includes “ideological alignment with the Russian state” in the category of materials that must be censored, which includes people who “parrot the Kremlin’s narratives through originally produced content or by spreading Kremlin aligned narratives to different target audiences and languages.”

Anyone who speaks out against U.S. foreign policy relating to Russia online is always immediately accused of “parroting Kremlin narratives” by empire apologists mindlessly regurgitating what they’ve been told to believe by outlets like The Washington Post, whether they have anything to do with the Russian government or not. I myself have no affiliation or interaction with the Russian state whatsoever, yet I receive many of these accusations every single day online just for criticizing U.S. foreign policy.

If I were the NATO Secretary General publicly gloating about how Putin’s efforts to stop the expansion of NATO have failed, it would be fine for me to acknowledge that NATO expansion provoked this war after our refusal to prevent a needless conflict. But because I am harming the information interests of the western empire instead of helping them, that makes me a Russian propagandist.

This isn’t because the definition of “Russian propaganda” is flawed, but because it is working exactly as intended. The push to marginalize and eliminate “Russian propaganda” has never had anything to do with fighting the actual materials put out by the Russian state (which have essentially zero meaningful existence in the western world); the push has always been about stomping out opposition to U.S. foreign policy. 

Like so much else in this world when examining the behavior of power, it’s ultimately all about narrative control. The powerful understand that whoever controls the dominant narrative about world events actually controls the world, because real power isn’t just controlling what happens but controlling what people think about what happens. That’s the real glue holding the U.S.-centralized empire together, and the world will never have a chance at knowing peace until people start bringing consciousness to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HipKat]

31 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Exactly.

Now try to explain how that fits with what you wrote.

Really?
You can’t be this dumb by accident.

ICR is using simile to make a point about Russia invading Ukraine by using different circumstances to illustrate the same point.

It’s OK, I understand it’s difficult to follow proper grammar when you can’t spell simple words, like Center

 

[HipKat]

31 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

1. Similes?

2. Nobody said that.  The first war aim was to protect Russian sovereignty aka Crimea and to stop the genocide of ethnic Russians in the Donbass.  Demilitarizing and denazification are also war aims.  These are not mutually exclusive

3.  Announced by whom? Does this Putin ally have a name? Do you have a link to this story? Seriously, this is a bold claim but given your proclivity to buy into bullshit your word is not good enough.  Lets see the linky please.

Wrong. The first war was to invade Crimea to capture a seaport to get Russia. Better access to the Black Sea. That’s all it was.

and it’s not shocking that does Poland comment is new to you when you don’t actually follow the news and you just make shit up on your own.

Russian President Putin’s ally says ‘Ukraine closed…Poland next’ in a chilling new video

Chechen strongman and an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ramzan Kadyrov, has warned Poland to "better take back your weapons" from Ukraine as he is ready to attack the European country. A video of his comment surfaced on Twitter where he can be heard saying that the issue of Ukraine is “closed”, and if given the order, he's “interested in Poland”.

Kadyrov also demanded an apology from Poland for an incident involving Russia's ambassador earlier this month where the latter was splattered with red paint by anti-war protesters during a Victory Day ceremony.

"The issue of Ukraine is closed. I'm interested in Poland. What is it trying to achieve?" Kadyrov said, according to a translation.

and just in case you need a couple of thousand more links

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Russian+ally+says+that+Putin+will+go+to+Poland+next&pc=EMMX04&FORM=EMMXA2&mkt=en-us

 

[Herodotus]

1 hour ago, HipKat said:

Wrong. The first war was to invade Crimea to capture a seaport to get Russia. Better access to the Black Sea. That’s all it was.

and it’s not shocking that does Poland comment is new to you when you don’t actually follow the news and you just make shit up on your own.

Russian President Putin’s ally says ‘Ukraine closed…Poland next’ in a chilling new video

Chechen strongman and an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ramzan Kadyrov, has warned Poland to "better take back your weapons" from Ukraine as he is ready to attack the European country. A video of his comment surfaced on Twitter where he can be heard saying that the issue of Ukraine is “closed”, and if given the order, he's “interested in Poland”.

Kadyrov also demanded an apology from Poland for an incident involving Russia's ambassador earlier this month where the latter was splattered with red paint by anti-war protesters during a Victory Day ceremony.

"The issue of Ukraine is closed. I'm interested in Poland. What is it trying to achieve?" Kadyrov said, according to a translation.

and just in case you need a couple of thousand more links

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Russian+ally+says+that+Putin+will+go+to+Poland+next&pc=EMMX04&FORM=EMMXA2&mkt=en-us

 

This is a trojan source, in other words, a source that completely says the opposite of what you claim.  Tell us hip, do you read what you post because its an important skill.  He said if Poland escalates this war and aggresses that he will have no problem fighting.  You quote mined and the mine collapsed on you.

 

CRIMEA? THAT IS MOVING THE GOALPOSTS

 

As for "following the news" why is a story from spring of 2022 from an obscure source the best you can do?  I know that WIO News isn't on your favorites bar.  Second, Russia was already in Crimea.  They already had a lease to their base in Sevastopol for another 50 years by treaty with Ukraine and they also had between 25 and 50 thousand troops.  Why would they take invade to take what they already had?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact

 

Now look in the mirror stuart smalley, look in the mirror and say, "I am a fucktard who doesn't know shit about this war.  I am also a gullible fuckwit from Kent Hovind's Hometown who believes whatever the media tells me.  But that's okay, I'm indoctrinated enough, I'm dumb enough, and as they are picking my pocket, making the world far more dangerous than need be, and lying to my face, the Biden regime says that people like me."

[Herodotus]

As for your multiple sources, I see names but more allegations and words taken out of context.  Bing and google are not your friends.

[shiva2999]

8 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

As for your multiple sources, I see names but more allegations and words taken out of context.  Bing and google are not your friends.

I'm sure he excuses his hostile behavior and rejection of the most basic elements of intelligent discourse because we supposedly "do it too".

[Herodotus]

1 minute ago, shiva2999 said:

I'm sure he rationalizes his behavior and rejection of the most basic elements of intelligent discourse because we supposedly "do it too".

Except I think I have only posted one thing Russia claimed that I couldn't independently verify.  Hip? Well his rage storm of "sources" has the exact same title, but the name of the Putin ally and the claim keeps changing, but its all from spring 2022 and not one of the allegedly chilling warnings, when tracked all the way says anything at all what hip says.  

[Herodotus]

The jist of what Putin's aide is alleged to have said is that if Poland continues escalating this war, and do remember Poland has been the biggest hawk for this war because for 1000 years Russo-Polish relations have been as follows:

Do to the other guy before he does to you what you want to do to him good and hard and play the victim while doing so.  

 

Also, I have one major problem with your bing list hip.  What the aide is accused of saying is consistent, but the name of the aide keeps changing.  When key details like that keep changing I can quickly conclude that the story is horse hock.

Kinda like everything else you have alleged and claimed.  All lies since at least Feb 2022.  From Ghost of Kiev and Snake Island Martyrs to Russian genocide and kidnapped children (and folks I already know he will post Bucha even though civilian deaths in Ukraine are still less than 10,000 per the UN Human rights commission) to the recent  nonsense you have kept trying to repeat that Russia was not already in Crimea by treaty until mid century.  

[HipKat]

1 hour ago, Herodotus said:

This is a trojan source, in other words, a source that completely says the opposite of what you claim.  Tell us hip, do you read what you post because its an important skill.  He said if Poland escalates this war and aggresses that he will have no problem fighting.  You quote mined and the mine collapsed on you.

see, this is how simple minded you are. According to you, Ukraine escalated the situation, which is how Russia faced its invasion. Even though Ukraine didn’t do a goddamn thing. They did not build up troops on the border with Russia. They did not take an attack posture against Russia. 

you don’t think that Russia could just in French a scenario where is Poland is escalating things

Also, I gave you the link to my search so you could see all of the links. That one was just the first return. There are thousands including all of the major media outlets. Not obscure.

1 hour ago, Herodotus said:

CRIMEA? THAT IS MOVING THE GOALPOSTS

 

You’re the one that brought up Crimea, Skippy

[Herodotus]

8 minutes ago, HipKat said:

see, this is how simple minded you are. According to you, Ukraine escalated the situation, which is how Russia faced its invasion. Even though Ukraine didn’t do a goddamn thing. They did not build up troops on the border with Russia. They did not take an attack posture against Russia. 

you don’t think that Russia could just in French a scenario where is Poland is escalating things

Also, I gave you the link to my search so you could see all of the links. That one was just the first return. There are thousands including all of the major media outlets. Not obscure.

You’re the one that brought up Crimea, Skippy

Did I? Where? That was you.  You are lying again.  

[ICRockets2]

2 hours ago, Herodotus said:

1. Similes?

2. Nobody said that.  The first war aim was to protect Russian sovereignty aka Crimea and to stop the genocide of ethnic Russians in the Donbass.  Demilitarizing and denazification are also war aims.  These are not mutually exclusive

3.  Announced by whom? Does this Putin ally have a name? Do you have a link to this story? Seriously, this is a bold claim but given your proclivity to buy into bullshit your word is not good enough.  Lets see the linky please.

Here.

[Herodotus]

9 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

Here.

Taken out of context, but that is what we have come to expect triggered shit

[Herodotus]

24 minutes ago, HipKat said:

see, this is how simple minded you are. According to you, Ukraine escalated the situation, which is how Russia faced its invasion. Even though Ukraine didn’t do a goddamn thing. They did not build up troops on the border with Russia. They did not take an attack posture against Russia. 

you don’t think that Russia could just in French a scenario where is Poland is escalating things

Also, I gave you the link to my search so you could see all of the links. That one was just the first return. There are thousands including all of the major media outlets. Not obscure.

You’re the one that brought up Crimea, Skippy

Tell us, the 14,000 ethnic Russians in Donbass killed between 2014 and 2022, did they kill themselves? They wanted to join Russia so did Russia kill their friends? Also, its a damn shame there wasn't a mechanism to prevent escalation cough cough Minsk agreement that oh wait they used that to build up artillery in Donbass and NATO used Minsk to arm and train Ukraine in offensive war.  Thou simple minded cum for brains.

[ICRockets2]

11 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

Tell us, the 14,000 ethnic Russians in Donbass killed between 2014 and 2022, did they kill themselves? They wanted to join Russia so did Russia kill their friends? Also, its a damn shame there wasn't a mechanism to prevent escalation cough cough Minsk agreement that oh wait they used that to build up artillery in Donbass and NATO used Minsk to arm and train Ukraine in offensive war.  Thou simple minded cum for brains.

Fake number.  That figure includes soldiers on both sides.

[ICRockets2]

15 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

Taken out of context

You said Hip was the one to bring up Crimea.  This was you being the first to bring up Crimea.

[HipKat]

36 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

Did I? Where? That was you.  You are lying again.  

Really??  

3 hours ago, Herodotus said:

2. Nobody said that.  The first war aim was to protect Russian sovereignty aka Crimea and to stop the genocide of ethnic Russians in the Donbass.  Demilitarizing and denazification are also war aims.  These are not mutually exclusive

I'll take that apology now

[Herodotus]

4 hours ago, HipKat said:

Really??  

I'll take that apology now

You take a lot of stuff up your ass, an apology won't be given for a fucktard who has constantly lied on the subject of Ukraine.

[ICRockets2]

19 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

You take a lot of stuff up your ass, an apology won't be given for a fucktard who has constantly lied on the subject of Ukraine.

So you think lying is bad but also it's fine that you did it?

[shiva2999]

16 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

You take a lot of stuff up your ass, an apology won't be given for a fucktard who has constantly lied on the subject of Ukraine.

I love these confrontations with the gruesome twosome.

The way they ignore logic and reason while posturing about their self declared virtue is truly something to marvel at.

 

[HipKat]

33 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

You take a lot of stuff up your ass, an apology won't be given for a fucktard who has constantly lied on the subject of Ukraine.

Lied???? lol.. how am I lying?? People who lie make the lie up themselves. I've never accused you of lying, just being brainwashed by lies.

Which has nothing to do with you being wrong about bringing up Crimea first

[HipKat]

10 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

I love these confrontations with the gruesome twosome.

The way they ignore logic and reason while posturing about their self declared virtue is truly something to marvel at.

 

Go take your meds, grampa

[Herodotus]

3 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Go take your meds, grampa

You first geezer and get icweiner his hormone pills.

[shiva2999]

31 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

You first geezer and get icweiner his hormone pills.

They're two seriously angry guys.

Life has been mean to them, having no accomplishments to speak of other than a mere continuation of their existence.

 

[HipKat]

1 hour ago, Herodotus said:

You first geezer and get icweiner his hormone pills.

I don' take any prescriptions. Just a few daily vitamins

[HipKat]

49 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

They're two seriously angry guys.

Life has been mean to them, having no accomplishments to speak of other than a mere continuation of their existence.

 

lol Pointing you out for having dementia does not mean I'm angry