Reminder on Comp Picks and how they are awarded

[Crazy Legs]

#1 - The Bills did not qualify for any Comp Picks in 2023.   

#2  The "secret" formula the NFL uses to award Compensatory Picks has two parts.   
You must meet the requirements of the first phase, before you can get into phase 2 which factors in things like contracts.

Formula - Level 1.       Free Agents LOST - Free Agents SIGNED > 0

The # of Free Agents you lost, must be GREATER THAN the # of Free Agents you signed.    

Example:

Let's say the Bills lose Tremaine Edmunds, Jordan Poyer and Devin Singletary to Free Agency.   

But the Bills sign Joe Blow Running Back for $1.5 mil/year, Freddy Linebacker for $3 million a year, and Slow Sammy for $2 mil/year as our new safety.

3 minus 3 = 0.   Thus, we would get no comp picks in 2024.  Contracts are NOT considered in this Level 1 of qualifying. 

Last year we signed a ton of free agents, so we had no chance.   We signed guys like Duke Johnson, David Quissenberry, Jamison Crowder, Rodger Saffold, Tim Settle, Jordan Phillips, Daquan Jones,  etc. 

 

[Nuke]

The Bills are horrible at getting compensatory picks. Remember the year they lost Gilmore they were in line for a third round pick. Then they turned around and signed a bunch of shit backups that contributed nothing. They could have easily filled those backup spots with street free agents, got the same production (nothing) and a third round pick. 

[Crazy Legs]

28 minutes ago, Nuke said:

The Bills are horrible at getting compensatory picks. Remember the year they lost Gilmore they were in line for a third round pick. Then they turned around and signed a bunch of shit backups that contributed nothing. They could have easily filled those backup spots with street free agents, got the same production (nothing) and a third round pick. 

Yep.

[Bumbles247]

There's a little more to it than just counting for and against. And yeah, we have sucked at it. Also worth noting, since the Collective Bargaining Agreement of 2020 the formula is no longer a secret.

[Crazy Legs]

10 hours ago, Bumbles247 said:

There's a little more to it than just counting for and against. And yeah, we have sucked at it. Also worth noting, since the Collective Bargaining Agreement of 2020 the formula is no longer a secret.

They still sit in a Conference Room in the New York offices of the NFL and manually go through who gets Comp Picks.

Most are strictly by the formula, but they have hard # of comp picks they give out.  When it gets down to the last few, there are ties and they have to make a subjective decision "who lost the most" - and yes contracts play a part, but things like playing time, impact on the new team, etc break those ties.   Typically those are just on the 7th round comps, so it isn't a huge loss if you don't get a 7th round comp pick. 

[cba fan]

13 hours ago, Bumbles247 said:

There's a little more to it than just counting for and against. And yeah, we have sucked at it. Also worth noting, since the Collective Bargaining Agreement of 2020 the formula is no longer a secret.

Yeah that's what the OP said.

He was pointing out the first criteria used is you must lose more defined type FA than you sign back.

That you could lose all in prime Ben Rothlisberger, Leveon Bell, Antonio Brown, Ju ju Smith, Troy Paloemeu, who go on to other teams for record contract salaries, but then sign 5 min salary guys who barley holds on to the final 5 roster spots and you get Zilch.

Compared to Bill B who signs guys, or trades for virtually nothing, halfway or longer through season on expiring contracts. Just so he can let them go by not signing them after the season, to then rake multiple 3rd comp picks every f/n year.

f'r Bill must have hacked the formula computer and fixed it for Pats. lol After all if you're not cheating you're not trying is what the Pats apologists say. lol

[Bumbles247]

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

Yeah that's what the OP said.

He was pointing out the first criteria used is you must lose more defined type FA than you sign back.

That you could lose all in prime Ben Rothlisberger, Leveon Bell, Antonio Brown, Ju ju Smith, Troy Paloemeu, who go on to other teams for record contract salaries, but then sign 5 min salary guys who barley holds on to the final 5 roster spots and you get Zilch.

Compared to Bill B who signs guys, or trades for virtually nothing, halfway or longer through season on expiring contracts. Just so he can let them go by not signing them after the season, to then rake multiple 3rd comp picks every f/n year.

f'r Bill must have hacked the formula computer and fixed it for Pats. lol After all if you're not cheating you're not trying is what the Pats apologists say. lol

And I was pointing out a couple things. One is that the formula is no longer a secret, as the OP said. Not a big deal I know but just pointing it out.

The other, as I also pointed out, is that there is a little more to it. Contrary to popular belief, not every contract counts towards the system. 

For example, if we sign a FA for a 1 year contract that is for less than $1.77 million, that player DOES NOT COUNT against us. So saying if we lose Edmunds and pick up Joe Blow running back we get nothing is not true if Joe Blow's $1.5 million is only for one year. For that matter, any player whose contract isn't in the top 35% of FA contracts signed doesn't count. I get that we signed more than we lost last year, but we lost out on picks for Harrison Phillips, Mitch Trubisky and Levi Wallace last year because we signed Daquan Jones, Tim Settle and Von Miller. Not because we signed Duke Johnson, David Quisenbaerry and Jamison Crowder. Not a single one of those 3 guys counted towards the formula. So once again, saying we would automatically lose a pick for Edmunds if we sign Joe Blow for $1.5 million is a bit of exaggeration.

If I'm out of line for pointing that out I don't know why.

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, Bumbles247 said:

And I was pointing out a couple things. One is that the formula is no longer a secret, as the OP said. Not a big deal I know but just pointing it out.

The other, as I also pointed out, is that there is a little more to it. Contrary to popular belief, not every contract counts towards the system. 

For example, if we sign a FA for a 1 year contract that is for less than $1.77 million, that player DOES NOT COUNT against us. So saying if we lose Edmunds and pick up Joe Blow running back we get nothing is not true if Joe Blow's $1.5 million is only for one year. For that matter, any player whose contract isn't in the top 35% of FA contracts signed doesn't count. I get that we signed more than we lost last year, but we lost out on picks for Harrison Phillips, Mitch Trubisky and Levi Wallace last year because we signed Daquan Jones, Tim Settle and Von Miller. Not because we signed Duke Johnson, David Quisenbaerry and Jamison Crowder. Not a single one of those 3 guys counted towards the formula. So once again, saying we would automatically lose a pick for Edmunds if we sign Joe Blow for $1.5 million is a bit of exaggeration.

If I'm out of line for pointing that out I don't know why.

i stand corrected. TY and apologies sent.  I thought the number was a hard number for + -. Did not know low contract guys don't matter.  I thought all FA's as in "proper FA" who contract just expired at end of season, matter in initial Q for comps.

[Bumbles247]

7 minutes ago, cba fan said:

i stand corrected. TY and apologies sent.  I thought the number was a hard number for + -. Did not know low contract guys don't matter. 

This guy at OTC does a fantastic job of keeping track every year.

 

Compensatory Picks | Over the Cap

 

[Crazy Legs]

2 hours ago, Bumbles247 said:

And I was pointing out a couple things. One is that the formula is no longer a secret, as the OP said. Not a big deal I know but just pointing it out.

The other, as I also pointed out, is that there is a little more to it. Contrary to popular belief, not every contract counts towards the system. 

For example, if we sign a FA for a 1 year contract that is for less than $1.77 million, that player DOES NOT COUNT against us. So saying if we lose Edmunds and pick up Joe Blow running back we get nothing is not true if Joe Blow's $1.5 million is only for one year. For that matter, any player whose contract isn't in the top 35% of FA contracts signed doesn't count. I get that we signed more than we lost last year, but we lost out on picks for Harrison Phillips, Mitch Trubisky and Levi Wallace last year because we signed Daquan Jones, Tim Settle and Von Miller. Not because we signed Duke Johnson, David Quisenbaerry and Jamison Crowder. Not a single one of those 3 guys counted towards the formula. So once again, saying we would automatically lose a pick for Edmunds if we sign Joe Blow for $1.5 million is a bit of exaggeration.

If I'm out of line for pointing that out I don't know why.

Everything about contracts don't matter until you pass GO.

If you don't pass GO, then the contracts never come into play.    (Passing GO is related to the #)

The # Number of Free Agents LOST minus Free Agents SIGNED must, must be greater than 0

Last year Beane signed more than we lost.    So we got no comp picks. 

This year if we lose 6 Free Agents (including Edmunds and Poyer) but Beane signs 7 new Free Agents, we will get 0 comp picks in 2024. 

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, Crazy Legs said:

Everything about contracts don't matter until you pass GO.

If you don't pass GO, then the contracts never come into play.    (Passing GO is related to the #)

The # Number of Free Agents LOST minus Free Agents SIGNED must, must be greater than 0

Last year Beane signed more than we lost.    So we got no comp picks. 

This year if we lose 6 Free Agents (including Edmunds and Poyer) but Beane signs 7 new Free Agents, we will get 0 comp picks in 2024. 

this link shows some contracts are not counted for that number.

Compensatory Picks | Over the Cap

low salary ones. Not sure why exactly they are non compensated FA. It must be some kind of designation like maybe they were undrafted? plus who knows how many other factors.

[Crazy Legs]

1 hour ago, cba fan said:

this link shows some contracts are not counted for that number.

Compensatory Picks | Over the Cap

low salary ones. Not sure why exactly they are non compensated FA. It must be some kind of designation like maybe they were undrafted? plus who knows how many other factors.

The example of the Buffalo Bills excluded Jamison Crowder not because of his low salary, but because he was not a "free agent".   He had been cut by his previous team.   Aka  "he was on the street".

For example, if we signed OBJ tomorrow, he would not count against us.   He is on the street.  He is not a "free agent" by contract, like Jordan Poyer and Tremaine Edmunds are going to be next week. 

Yesterday the Vikings released LB Eric Kendricks.  We could sign him, and he would not count against us. 
QB Marcus Mariota was released this weekend.  Ditto for him.  He would not count against us in the formula calculation. 

Signing street guys is good.  We just don't do enough of it. 

 

[Bumbles247]

3 hours ago, Crazy Legs said:

The example of the Buffalo Bills excluded Jamison Crowder not because of his low salary, but because he was not a "free agent".   He had been cut by his previous team.   Aka  "he was on the street".

For example, if we signed OBJ tomorrow, he would not count against us.   He is on the street.  He is not a "free agent" by contract, like Jordan Poyer and Tremaine Edmunds are going to be next week. 

Yesterday the Vikings released LB Eric Kendricks.  We could sign him, and he would not count against us. 
QB Marcus Mariota was released this weekend.  Ditto for him.  He would not count against us in the formula calculation. 

Signing street guys is good.  We just don't do enough of it. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Crazy Legs said:

The example of the Buffalo Bills excluded Jamison Crowder not because of his low salary, but because he was not a "free agent".   He had been cut by his previous team.   Aka  "he was on the street".

For example, if we signed OBJ tomorrow, he would not count against us.   He is on the street.  He is not a "free agent" by contract, like Jordan Poyer and Tremaine Edmunds are going to be next week. 

Yesterday the Vikings released LB Eric Kendricks.  We could sign him, and he would not count against us. 
QB Marcus Mariota was released this weekend.  Ditto for him.  He would not count against us in the formula calculation. 

Signing street guys is good.  We just don't do enough of it. 

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Not every free agent signed or lost is counted in the formula. Crowder was not cut by the Jets he was a free agent just like every other player whose contract expired. He simply didn't count in the formula because his contract was outside of the top 35% and therefore he didn't qualify as a Compensatory Free Agent gained or lost.

First of all, go back to your original post. The compensatory formula is no longer a secret. It's spelled out in black and white in the 2020 CBA. Maybe get yourself a copy and read it. The first thing you will read is that picks are based on plus/minus of Compensatory Free Agents - abbreviated CFA in the document. Then the document goes on to list which free agents qualify as CFA and which don't. Guys like Duke Johnson and Crowder do not qualify as CFAs because their contracts don't fall into the top 35% of FA contracts signed. Therefore - ACCORDING TO THE FORMULA SPELLED OUT CLEARLY IN THE CBA - they do not count for or against the formula for picks. 

I'm not making this up. It's all there for you to read if you want to. Again, the Bills didn't get zero picks because they signed 6 guys including Duke Johnson, Jamison Crowder and whoever the hell else I can't remember. They got zero picks because their lost qualifying CFAs (according to the definition of CFA in the CBA) Phillips, $6.5M, Trubisky, $7.4M, and Wallace, $4.0M were cancelled out by Jones, $7.0M, Settle, $4.5M, and Miller, $20M. It had absolutely nothing to do with Duke Johnson, Jamison Crowder or any of the other free agents they signed.

And to your original point saying Edmunds signing for $8+M or whatever would be cancelled out by Joe Blow signing for $1.5 M, it's just wrong. If Edmunds was the only FA we lost and he signed for $8+M, even if we signed 5 Joe Blows for one year deals worth $1.5M each, we would not lose a pick for Edmunds.

You don't want to believe it it's on you. But it's not a secret. Hasn't been for 3 years now. Go ahead and read it and you will see that scenario is wrong. Good day to you.

[Crazy Legs]

8 hours ago, Bumbles247 said:

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Not every free agent signed or lost is counted in the formula. Crowder was not cut by the Jets he was a free agent just like every other player whose contract expired. He simply didn't count in the formula because his contract was outside of the top 35% and therefore he didn't qualify as a Compensatory Free Agent gained or lost.

First of all, go back to your original post. The compensatory formula is no longer a secret. It's spelled out in black and white in the 2020 CBA. Maybe get yourself a copy and read it. The first thing you will read is that picks are based on plus/minus of Compensatory Free Agents - abbreviated CFA in the document. Then the document goes on to list which free agents qualify as CFA and which don't. Guys like Duke Johnson and Crowder do not qualify as CFAs because their contracts don't fall into the top 35% of FA contracts signed. Therefore - ACCORDING TO THE FORMULA SPELLED OUT CLEARLY IN THE CBA - they do not count for or against the formula for picks. 

I'm not making this up. It's all there for you to read if you want to. Again, the Bills didn't get zero picks because they signed 6 guys including Duke Johnson, Jamison Crowder and whoever the hell else I can't remember. They got zero picks because their lost qualifying CFAs (according to the definition of CFA in the CBA) Phillips, $6.5M, Trubisky, $7.4M, and Wallace, $4.0M were cancelled out by Jones, $7.0M, Settle, $4.5M, and Miller, $20M. It had absolutely nothing to do with Duke Johnson, Jamison Crowder or any of the other free agents they signed.

And to your original point saying Edmunds signing for $8+M or whatever would be cancelled out by Joe Blow signing for $1.5 M, it's just wrong. If Edmunds was the only FA we lost and he signed for $8+M, even if we signed 5 Joe Blows for one year deals worth $1.5M each, we would not lose a pick for Edmunds.

You don't want to believe it it's on you. But it's not a secret. Hasn't been for 3 years now. Go ahead and read it and you will see that scenario is wrong. Good day to you.

Read the rules.

There are TWO parts to the qualification of receiving comp picks.

The first phase is    Free Agents LOST - Free Agents SIGNED.     Contracts, draft position, etc have nothing to do whether or not you get to go to phase two.   If you haven't Lost more than you you signed, you are out. 

Phase two, if you lost more than you have signed, will THEN consider contract size, draft position, etc.   Also note, even if one of our free agent gets signed by another team, it is not over.   That player needs to make the team, and play meaningful snaps during the fall.  That is why they don't calculate/award comp picks until the following spring. 

[f8ta1ity54]

I dont expect the bills to qualify for any comp picks. 

[cba fan]

12 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

I dont expect the bills to qualify for any comp picks. 

lmao......that's the safe bet, and avoids any debating and arguments. 

I got my money on Bumbles247. But let's see how this plays out. 

[f8ta1ity54]

9 hours ago, cba fan said:

lmao......that's the safe bet, and avoids any debating and arguments. 

which debate/argument am I avoiding? 

9 hours ago, cba fan said:

I got my money on Bumbles247. But let's see how this plays out. 

[Crazy Legs]

 

For 2023, San Francisco are receiving 7 comp picks.

Four of the 49ers’ new picks come as a result of the NFL’s formula awarding picks to teams that have a net loss in free agents.

The other three picks are a result of the league’s initiative that awards picks to the prior employer-club of a minority employee who has been hired by another club as its head coach or primary football executive. Jets head coach Robert Saleh, Commanders General Manager Martin Mayhew, Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel, Texans head coach DeMeco Ryans, and Titans General Manager Ran Carthon have left the Niners in the last three years.

 

[Bumbles247]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:09 AM, Crazy Legs said:

Read the rules.

There are TWO parts to the qualification of receiving comp picks.

The first phase is    Free Agents LOST - Free Agents SIGNED.     Contracts, draft position, etc have nothing to do whether or not you get to go to phase two.   If you haven't Lost more than you you signed, you are out. 

Phase two, if you lost more than you have signed, will THEN consider contract size, draft position, etc.   Also note, even if one of our free agent gets signed by another team, it is not over.   That player needs to make the team, and play meaningful snaps during the fall.  That is why they don't calculate/award comp picks until the following spring. 

Read the rules. It says the first phase is lost COMPENSATORY free agents vs signed COMPENSATORY free agents. They even have an official abbreviation for it in the CBA. they call them CFAs for short. Only CFAs count in the formula. CFAs lost vs CFAs signed. Not every free agent is a CFA. a good example of a non-CFA is Jamison crowder. His contract didn't fall inside the top 35%. Therefore he was a non-CFA free agent. Other examples of non-CFAs (who don't count in the formula) are Duke Johnson and Joe blow running back who signs for 1 year at $1.5 million. If our only moves were losing Edmunds (CFA) and signing joe blow (NON-CFA), we would still gain a comp pick. Joe blow at $1.5 mil doesn't cancel anything.

[cba fan]

14 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

which debate/argument am I avoiding? 

 

all of them concerning how and if Bills get comp picks. 

[f8ta1ity54]

6 hours ago, cba fan said:

all of them concerning how and if Bills get comp picks. 

So then I did make an argument. And didn't avoid anything. 

[daryls61]

12 hours ago, Crazy Legs said:

 

For 2023, San Francisco are receiving 7 comp picks.

Four of the 49ers’ new picks come as a result of the NFL’s formula awarding picks to teams that have a net loss in free agents.

The other three picks are a result of the league’s initiative that awards picks to the prior employer-club of a minority employee who has been hired by another club as its head coach or primary football executive. Jets head coach Robert Saleh, Commanders General Manager Martin Mayhew, Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel, Texans head coach DeMeco Ryans, and Titans General Manager Ran Carthon have left the Niners in the last three years.

 

Mike McDaniel is a minority?

[cba fan]

On 3/10/2023 at 5:49 AM, daryls61 said:

Mike McDaniel is a minority?

yes just like me. I am also part black. But look very white.

[Nuke]

So Crazy, where do we stand on Comp picks for next year? Edmunds would qualify for a third. But, right now the Bills have signing 5 and lossing 5 so I’m guessing it’s a wash again. So far. I don’t understand why we couldn’t have waited to sign a gunner on ST . That’s what I see Sherfield as, a replacement for Kumerow. A third rounder or another Jake Kumerow? I’m taking the 3rd

[Crazy Legs]

3 hours ago, Nuke said:

So Crazy, where do we stand on Comp picks for next year? Edmunds would qualify for a third. But, right now the Bills have signing 5 and lossing 5 so I’m guessing it’s a wash again. So far. I don’t understand why we couldn’t have waited to sign a gunner on ST . That’s what I see Sherfield as, a replacement for Kumerow. A third rounder or another Jake Kumerow? I’m taking the 3rd

Right now we do not qualify. 

Even if Rodger Saffold signs tomorrow, and Jordan Phillips the day after that, the formula is murky.

For example, losing Jaquan Johnson might not count.  His new salary might be too low.  So he gets tossed from the equation. 
Have to wait to see but he needs to be paid more than $2.5 million APY.   
In fact, we don't know if Devin Singletary counts.  His contract details have not been released yet.  Need to know his BASE Salary.

We do know Kyle Allen does NOT count against us because his 2023 salary is only $1.23 million.