SpikedLemonade Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Ukrainian interior minister Denis Monastyrsky killed in helicopter crash, police say Ukrainian Interior Minister Denis Monastyrsky is among three ministers killed in the Brovary helicopter crash, Ukrainian National Police Chief Ihor Klymenko said. “The crash killed the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs - the Minister, the First Deputy Minister and the State Secretary,” Klymenko said. At least 16 people died in the crash, nine of whom were aboard the helicopter when it went down near a kindergarten and residential building in the Kyiv region, Klymenko said earlier. At least 16 killed in helicopter crash in Kyiv region, Ukrainian police say At least 16 people have been killed after a helicopter crashed in a Kyiv suburb on Wednesday, Ukrainian police said. National Police chief Ihor Klymenko said nine of the dead had been onboard the aircraft, which crashed near a kindergarten and residential building in the eastern suburb of Brovary. Two of those killed were children, he said. Another 22 people are in hospital, including 10 children, he added. https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-1-18-23/h_aeb11de69a09578d06de3f89643baa14 Poland Marks 11th Anniversary Of Presidential Plane Crash In Russia Poland has commemorated the 11th anniversary of a plane crash near the Russian city of Smolensk that killed 96 people -- including Poland's then-President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, and many of the country's senior political and military officials. Many Poles, including senior members of the governing Law and Justice Party, question the results of an investigation released in 2011 by a special Polish commission. It concluded the Tu-154 military flight from Warsaw had crashed on April 10, 2010, in extreme fog on its approach to an airport near Smolensk because of pilot error and a lack of warnings from Smolensk air-traffic controllers. Poles are also suspicious of Russia’s handling of the investigation. The current Polish president, Andrzej Duda, has noted that while Russia turned over data from the plane's flight recorders that it deemed relevant to the case, "the wreckage is still in Russia; the black boxes are still in Russia."... https://www.rferl.org/a/poland-smolensk-plane-crash-11-anniversary-kaczynski-russia/31196658.html Vladimir Putin was responsible for plane crash that killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski, says Polish defence minister Poland's President Lech Kaczynski, the First Lady and 94 others died in a plane crash in 2010 Poland's defence minister has accused Vladimir Putin of involvement in the 2010 plane crash which killed the Polish president as he urged him to "take responsibility". Antoni Macierewicz claims the fatal crash which killed Poland's President Lech Kaczynski, the First Lady and 94 others in 2010 in Russia was preceded by two explosions on board.... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-polish-president-lech-kaczynski-plane-crash-russia-poland-defence-minister-antoni-macierewicz-a8111831.html ------------------------------------------------------ SEE A PATTERN HERE? Quote Do Your Part to Improve The Range -- Please put the TRIO OF TRUMP FLUFFERSTM on IGNORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 It HAS to be Putin's fault. The Polish, after all, have a world wide reputation for being smart as whips and never fucking up. 1 Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodotus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I see it as more than likely that a bunch of Nazis got in a chopper that was poorly maintained and went boom and now went to Uncle Adolf and Grandpa Stepan. Good riddance to them, 16 less Nazis. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodotus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 As for your Tu 154, that design is just terrible. Lots of crashes including the Red Army Choir so no no pattern here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodotus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Lets review the facts, this was a French Puma helicopter. Given the rampant problems with corruption in Ukraine combined with what was probably insufficient maintenance (after all it was a western type and Ukrainian techs are probably a lot more familiar with Kamovs and Mils). That can be a disaster. As for the Tu 154? 100+ crashes out of 1000 built? That's a 10% loss rate. So as fun as a Polish plane being sabotaged sounds,just remember, the Red Army Choir died on one of those types as well because it was a piece of junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRockets2 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 8 hours ago, shiva2999 said: It HAS to be Putin's fault. The Polish, after all, have a world wide reputation for being smart as whips and never fucking up. I have no doubt there are viable arguments one could make in Vlad's defense there, but "I base my worldview on ethnic supremacy as it pertains to cartoonish stereotypes" is not one of them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRockets2 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 7 hours ago, Herodotus said: I see it as more than likely that a bunch of Nazis got in a chopper that was poorly maintained and went boom and now went to Uncle Adolf and Grandpa Stepan. Good riddance to them, 16 less Nazis. "2 of those killed were children" Did you miss this part? Would you like to reconsider your narrative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRockets2 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 20 minutes ago, shiva2999 said: 9 hours ago, SpikedLemonade said: Two of those killed were children, he said. Another 22 people are in hospital, including 10 children, he added. Never, ever, ever again ask why I think you are a foundationally rotten person. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 7 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said: I have no doubt there are viable arguments one could make in Vlad's defense there, but "I base my worldview on ethnic supremacy as it pertains to cartoonish stereotypes" is not one of them Sez you. It's not like I invented Polish jokes. 1 Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very Wide Right Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 9 hours ago, SpikedLemonade said: Ukrainian interior minister Denis Monastyrsky killed in helicopter crash, police say Ukrainian Interior Minister Denis Monastyrsky is among three ministers killed in the Brovary helicopter crash, Ukrainian National Police Chief Ihor Klymenko said. “The crash killed the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs - the Minister, the First Deputy Minister and the State Secretary,” Klymenko said. At least 16 people died in the crash, nine of whom were aboard the helicopter when it went down near a kindergarten and residential building in the Kyiv region, Klymenko said earlier. At least 16 killed in helicopter crash in Kyiv region, Ukrainian police say At least 16 people have been killed after a helicopter crashed in a Kyiv suburb on Wednesday, Ukrainian police said. National Police chief Ihor Klymenko said nine of the dead had been onboard the aircraft, which crashed near a kindergarten and residential building in the eastern suburb of Brovary. Two of those killed were children, he said. Another 22 people are in hospital, including 10 children, he added. https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-1-18-23/h_aeb11de69a09578d06de3f89643baa14 Poland Marks 11th Anniversary Of Presidential Plane Crash In Russia Poland has commemorated the 11th anniversary of a plane crash near the Russian city of Smolensk that killed 96 people -- including Poland's then-President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, and many of the country's senior political and military officials. Many Poles, including senior members of the governing Law and Justice Party, question the results of an investigation released in 2011 by a special Polish commission. It concluded the Tu-154 military flight from Warsaw had crashed on April 10, 2010, in extreme fog on its approach to an airport near Smolensk because of pilot error and a lack of warnings from Smolensk air-traffic controllers. Poles are also suspicious of Russia’s handling of the investigation. The current Polish president, Andrzej Duda, has noted that while Russia turned over data from the plane's flight recorders that it deemed relevant to the case, "the wreckage is still in Russia; the black boxes are still in Russia."... https://www.rferl.org/a/poland-smolensk-plane-crash-11-anniversary-kaczynski-russia/31196658.html Vladimir Putin was responsible for plane crash that killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski, says Polish defence minister Poland's President Lech Kaczynski, the First Lady and 94 others died in a plane crash in 2010 Poland's defence minister has accused Vladimir Putin of involvement in the 2010 plane crash which killed the Polish president as he urged him to "take responsibility". Antoni Macierewicz claims the fatal crash which killed Poland's President Lech Kaczynski, the First Lady and 94 others in 2010 in Russia was preceded by two explosions on board.... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-polish-president-lech-kaczynski-plane-crash-russia-poland-defence-minister-antoni-macierewicz-a8111831.html ------------------------------------------------------ SEE A PATTERN HERE? Yes, you are concentrating on bullshit while your wife is working, and you clearly aren't cleaning again today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 7 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said: Never, ever, ever again ask why I think you are a foundationally rotten person. Please explain. What is it in that post that convinces you beyond a shred of disbelief that I'm a fundamentally rotten person? Am I not weepy enough for you? Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRockets2 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 13 minutes ago, shiva2999 said: Please explain. What is it in that post that convinces you beyond a shred of disbelief that I'm a fundamentally rotten person? Am I not weepy enough for you? You're making a mockery of the death of children. I really don't think you require further explanation as to why I think that's vile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 19 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said: You're making a mockery of the death of children. I really don't think you require further explanation as to why I think that's vile. No, I'm making a mockery of people so unprincipled they'll use the deaths of innocent children to demonize their opponents. If you leave children in a war zone, it's inevitable some will die. But I'm sure Americans like yourself are so self-righteous it won't matter. If you think Russia and Russians WANT TO KILL Ukrainian children for no reason, you're out of your mind. 1 Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc856 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Helicopters crash. crappy helicopters crash more. yes. I see a pattern. you have anything more than speculation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodotus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 22 minutes ago, shiva2999 said: No, I'm making a mockery of people so unprincipled they'll use the deaths of innocent children to demonize their opponents. If you leave children in a war zone, it's inevitable some will die. But I'm sure Americans like yourself are so self-righteous it won't matter. If you think Russia and Russians WANT TO KILL Ukrainian children for no reason, you're out of your mind. Per Ukraine's own government, "genocidal" Russia has killed 9000 civilians in almost a year of war. As I keep saying, war is always evil because no matter how hard you try to minimize it, war will always kill civilians. Estimates of the War on Terror against the people of Iraq range from 300,000 to 1.5 million from 2003 to 2008. 60 thousand to 300 thousand a year, frankly we will never know because we don't keep count and nor are we part of any international tribunal that will ever hold us accountable. Russia? By their standards, to say nothing of ours, this has been a very surgical and clean war in regard to civilian dead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodotus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, jc856 said: Helicopters crash. crappy helicopters crash more. yes. I see a pattern. you have anything more than speculation? Well it was a French chopper, but again if you are mostly trained on fixing Kamovs and Mils you might not be all too savvy on French designs. Also, we have yet to see the maintenance logs. We may never see them. Assassination by Russia because of Tu 154? Well @jc856 that was a piece of shit 1000 built and over 100 wrecks. That ain't sabotage, that's an unsafe plane that should have been scrapped in 1991 along with the country that made it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc856 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 5 minutes ago, Herodotus said: Well it was a French chopper, but again if you are mostly trained on fixing Kamovs and Mils you might not be all too savvy on French designs. Also, we have yet to see the maintenance logs. We may never see them. Assassination by Russia because of Tu 154? Well @jc856 that was a piece of shit 1000 built and over 100 wrecks. That ain't sabotage, that's an unsafe plane that should have been scrapped in 1991 along with the country that made it. Every time an aircraft crashes with famous people on it, people will speculate. and make assumptions. making an aircraft fail somehow is a great way to kill someone and have plausible deniability. (Wasn’t me!) but sometimes they just crash. ask Kobe’s family. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRockets2 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 51 minutes ago, shiva2999 said: No, I'm making a mockery of people so unprincipled they'll use the deaths of innocent children to demonize their opponents. If you leave children in a war zone, it's inevitable some will die. But I'm sure Americans like yourself are so self-righteous it won't matter. If you think Russia and Russians WANT TO KILL Ukrainian children for no reason, you're out of your mind. I don't think they want to kill kids for no reason. I think they want to kill them because they're fascists and fascists are just evil people who want to make the world worse. Put another way: I don't think there's no reason, I think there's no GOOD reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, ICRockets2 said: I don't think they want to kill kids for no reason. I think they want to kill them because they're fascists and fascists are just evil people who want to make the world worse. And I have seen nothing to indicate ANY of them are are fascists. Sorry, but the mere fact some Ukrainian children have died in the fighting doesn't IN ANY WAY prove the Russians are fascists nor does it prove ANY of these children were killed intentionally. But it does indicate the lengths YOU will try to go to in a bogus attempt to assign blame. 1 Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRockets2 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, shiva2999 said: Sorry, but the mere fact some Ukrainian children have died in the fighting doesn't IN ANY WAY prove the Russians are fascists nor does it prove ANY of these children were killed intentionally. I agree. Fortunately, that "mere fact" is not why I understand Putin's government to be fascist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc856 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Herodotus said: Well it was a French chopper, but again if you are mostly trained on fixing Kamovs and Mils you might not be all too savvy on French designs. Also, we have yet to see the maintenance logs. We may never see them. Assassination by Russia because of Tu 154? Well @jc856 that was a piece of shit 1000 built and over 100 wrecks. That ain't sabotage, that's an unsafe plane that should have been scrapped in 1991 along with the country that made it. That’s a terrible record, 1 in 10. but, if they were in the hands of incompetent or negligent owners, or they were in service waaaaay longer than the expected life span, I could see a lot crashing. oh, and like you mentioned before, ill-trained pilots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 7 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said: I agree. Fortunately, that "mere fact" is not why I understand Putin's government to be fascist. When you decide to explain why I'll read it. Until then, I see no reason to believe your ridiculous and utterly unsupported claim. 1 Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva2999 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, ICRockets2 said: I agree. Fortunately, that "mere fact" is not why I understand Putin's government to be fascist. So, when will you tell us "why"? Quote "The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebowflexbody Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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