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Why can men play convincing women but women can't play convincing men?


shiva2999
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7 minutes ago, jc856 said:

Preserving a tradition doesn’t have to involve kids, does it?

the local moose lodge has traditions too🤷‍♂️

Well, if you're asking if I think child drag queens should be a thing, the answer is no.  That kid "Dexter Is Incredible" or whatever his name is, I'm....not exactly supportive of things like that.   

But in order to make the argument that kids mustn't be AUDIENCE to drag shows under certain age-appropriate conditions you'd have to demonstrate harm and I just don't think that's a credible endeavor.  Some kids are, themselves, queer or gender non-conforming so I think it's fine to raise them and their peers to recognize that there's nothing wrong with that.  

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1 hour ago, jc856 said:

That’s fair.

I just ask because I feel like you don’t care for America’s attitude toward the rest of the world, and I live within its borders, so I’m not to be trusted.
 

Are you asking why men played the parts of women in plays throughout history? Because, I don’t really know. I’m thinking you want to tie this to cross-dressing?

I personally don’t understand why guys “enjoy” it, but I don’t understand a lot of things.

the one thing I won’t do, is call something a mental illness because I don’t understand it. I wasn’t always like that, and I’m glad.

I also can’t tell someone like Rich or AB or any others that don’t want trans people or cross-dressers with their children, that they are wrong.

that’s where I am with that.

 

Although technically one could say every time someone cross dresses it's drag, but drag generally refers to cross dressing as a parody of femininity, but men CAN do themselves up as convincing women for other reasons, whereas I've never seen a woman yet that could pass as a man for more than 15 seconds.

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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1 hour ago, jc856 said:

That’s fair.

I just ask because I feel like you don’t care for America’s attitude toward the rest of the world, and I live within its borders, so I’m not to be trusted.
 

Are you asking why men played the parts of women in plays throughout history? Because, I don’t really know. I’m thinking you want to tie this to cross-dressing?

I personally don’t understand why guys “enjoy” it, but I don’t understand a lot of things.

the one thing I won’t do, is call something a mental illness because I don’t understand it. I wasn’t always like that, and I’m glad.

I also can’t tell someone like Rich or AB or any others that don’t want trans people or cross-dressers with their children, that they are wrong.

that’s where I am with that.

 

Although technically one could say every time someone cross dresses it's drag, but drag generally refers to cross dressing as a parody of femininity, but men CAN do themselves up as convincing women for other reasons, whereas I've never seen a woman yet that could pass as a man for more than 15 seconds.

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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1 hour ago, jc856 said:

That’s fair.

I just ask because I feel like you don’t care for America’s attitude toward the rest of the world, and I live within its borders, so I’m not to be trusted.
 

Are you asking why men played the parts of women in plays throughout history? Because, I don’t really know. I’m thinking you want to tie this to cross-dressing?

I personally don’t understand why guys “enjoy” it, but I don’t understand a lot of things.

the one thing I won’t do, is call something a mental illness because I don’t understand it. I wasn’t always like that, and I’m glad.

I also can’t tell someone like Rich or AB or any others that don’t want trans people or cross-dressers with their children, that they are wrong.

that’s where I am with that.

 

Although technically one could say every time someone cross dresses it's drag, but drag generally refers to cross dressing as a parody of femininity, but men CAN do themselves up as convincing women for other reasons, whereas I've never seen a woman yet that could pass as a man for more than 15 seconds.

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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1 minute ago, shiva2999 said:

 

Although technically one could say every time someone cross dresses it's drag, but drag generally refers to cross dressing as a parody of femininity, but men CAN do themselves up as convincing women for other reasons, whereas I've never seen a woman yet that could pass as a man for more than 15 seconds.

Maybe that’s because that’s because you’re you’re looking thru the eyes of a hetero male perhaps?

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3 minutes ago, jc856 said:

Maybe that’s because that’s because you’re you’re looking thru the eyes of a hetero male perhaps?

What's because???

Not sure what you're referring to.

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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6 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

 

Although technically one could say every time someone cross dresses it's drag, but drag generally refers to cross dressing as a parody of femininity, but men CAN do themselves up as convincing women for other reasons, whereas I've never seen a woman yet that could pass as a man for more than 15 seconds.

Are you telling me that the people that are fooled by Jack and Tony would be fooled in real life?.

Who would be fooled by Tom Hanks in Bosom Buddies?

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1 minute ago, jc856 said:

Are you telling me that the people that are fooled by Jack and Tony would be fooled in real life?.

Who would be fooled by Tom Hanks in Bosom Buddies?

I've never seen Bosom Buddies and of course Jack and Tony aren't supposed to be 100% convincing because that would be disturbing as the audience needs to be in on the joke, but the joke and plot don't work unless the audience believes it IS possible for two men to pass themselves off as real women.

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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6 minutes ago, jc856 said:

I bolded your statement.

that you’ve never seen a woman who could pass as a man for more than 15 seconds 

It may be for some reason or another but the statement is accurate as far as it goes.

I'VE never seen one.

Have you?

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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29 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

It may be for some reason or another but the statement is accurate as far as it goes.

I'VE never seen one.

Have you?

Personally, no.

But really, most people are plain looking, and some androgynous ways of grooming can make you wonder for a bit whether someone is male or female. That has happened to me.

sometimes you have to see someone animated. Sometimes it’s affectation or some other nuance that’s a clue.

an ugly fat woman could play an ugly fat man pretty easy I think. A handsome woman playing a handsome man might be impossible to pull off. 

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4 minutes ago, jc856 said:

Personally, no.

But really, most people are plain looking, and some androgynous ways of grooming can make you wonder for a bit whether someone is male or female. That has happened to me.

sometimes you have to see someone animated. Sometimes it’s affectation or some other nuance that’s a clue.

an ugly fat woman could play an ugly fat man pretty easy I think. A handsome woman playing a handsome man might be impossible to pull off. 

Ever see "The Crying Game"?

Terrific movie but it only took two seconds to recognize Jaye Davidson as a man.

 

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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2 hours ago, jc856 said:

Personally, no.

But really, most people are plain looking, and some androgynous ways of grooming can make you wonder for a bit whether someone is male or female. That has happened to me.

sometimes you have to see someone animated. Sometimes it’s affectation or some other nuance that’s a clue.

an ugly fat woman could play an ugly fat man pretty easy I think. A handsome woman playing a handsome man might be impossible to pull off. 

Looking at this as a singer, I can't help but imagine that women face a unique physiological disadvantage in terms of vocal impersonation.  It's easier for thick male vocal chords to demonstrate control over the top of their range than it is for thin female vocal chords to manifest a natural baritone out of thin air.   

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3 hours ago, shiva2999 said:

Although technically one could say every time someone cross dresses it's drag, but drag generally refers to cross dressing as a parody of femininity,

There are such a thing as drag kings, too.  Check out this article:

https://www.vox.com/23190129/drag-kings-masculine-performance-gender

The video within features a handful of drag kings, and I think at least one of them does a good job of passing as a man.  

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Also, once again looking at this as a singer, there is a long tradition of "breeches" roles in theatre.  Many operas had women playing male characters.  Peter Pan is routinely played by women.  I think there are plenty of examples of women playing convincing men, and I find it far more likely that shiva HAS seen it and has simply forgotten it than it is that he truly has never seen it.  Balderdash to that, I say.  'Tis utter tosh.  

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2 hours ago, ICRockets2 said:

Also, once again looking at this as a singer, there is a long tradition of "breeches" roles in theatre.  Many operas had women playing male characters.  Peter Pan is routinely played by women.  I think there are plenty of examples of women playing convincing men, and I find it far more likely that shiva HAS seen it and has simply forgotten it than it is that he truly has never seen it.  

Peter Pan is a child as is Bart Simpson.

And if you think there are plenty of examples of women playing convincing men, it should be easy to name one.

Be my guest...

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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4 minutes ago, SpikedLemonade said:

Can't get this to work.

Can you embed it?

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_conceit

 

Central conceit

In drama and other art forms, the central conceit of a work of fiction is the underlying fictitious assumption which must be accepted by the audience with suspension of disbelief so the plot may be seen as plausible.

An example from popular culture is the way many cartoons feature animals that can speak to each other, and in many cases can understand human speech, but humans cannot understand the speech of animals. This conceit is seen, and sometimes exploited for plot purposes, in such films as Over the Hedge, the Balto series, and Brother Bear.

 

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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