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Why can men play convincing women but women can't play convincing men?


shiva2999
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After all, men as female impersonators has been a thing for millennia but women as male impersonators are virtually unknown.

Why?

 

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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Men are better actors than women?

Why weren’t jesters in the Kings Court  women?

many boys were dressed as girls to avoid conscription and whatnot by mommies who wanted to protect their sons.

maybe some went on to like it.

and since the advent of pantyhose, you gotta believe some people **cough cough spike cough cough** looooove the feel of said pantyhose on their junk……

when you ax questions, you don’t give your opinion.

is this a teaching moment by a teacher, or a discussion?

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7 minutes ago, jc856 said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, jc856 said:

Men are better actors than women?

Why weren’t jesters in the Kings Court  women?

many boys were dressed as girls to avoid conscription and whatnot by mommies who wanted to protect their sons.

maybe some went on to like it.

and since the advent of pantyhose, you gotta believe some people **cough cough spike cough cough** looooove the feel of said pantyhose on their junk……

when you ax questions, you don’t give your opinion.

is this a teaching moment by a teacher, or a discussion?

I know what I think.

I'm interested in what other people think and why.

If I tell my opinion in the first post it'll only generate an attack on me.

I'd at least like to hear the opinions of others before I declare mine.

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"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date." ~ Gen. Mark (Killer) Kimmitt

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/911_newpearlharbor.pdf

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

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What sorts of "men playing women" are you thinking of that don't have an analog? 

Just trying to glean whether you're thinking in the realm of drag specifically, or if you'd prefer we exclude it and discuss other forms of impersonation, or if you would like to include both drag and non-drag performances.  

My mind goes to drag queens here, but it's possible that I'm just ignorant of other examples you have in mind.  If there's non-drag stuff you're thinking of, please share and I'd be happy to look into them and offer my thoughts.

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6 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

What sorts of "men playing women" are you thinking of that don't have an analog? 

Just trying to glean whether you're thinking in the realm of drag specifically, or if you'd prefer we exclude it and discuss other forms of impersonation, or if you would like to include both drag and non-drag performances.  

My mind goes to drag queens here, but it's possible that I'm just ignorant of other examples you have in mind.  If there's non-drag stuff you're thinking of, please share and I'd be happy to look into them and offer my thoughts.

You should watch the All in the Family episodes with Beverly. Sad, especially the last episode Beverly was in.

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1 hour ago, shiva2999 said:

 

I know what I think.

I'm interested in what other people think and why.

If I tell my opinion in the first post it'll only generate an attack on me.

I'd at least like to hear the opinions of others before I declare mine.

That’s fair.

I just ask because I feel like you don’t care for America’s attitude toward the rest of the world, and I live within its borders, so I’m not to be trusted.
 

Are you asking why men played the parts of women in plays throughout history? Because, I don’t really know. I’m thinking you want to tie this to cross-dressing?

I personally don’t understand why guys “enjoy” it, but I don’t understand a lot of things.

the one thing I won’t do, is call something a mental illness because I don’t understand it. I wasn’t always like that, and I’m glad.

I also can’t tell someone like Rich or AB or any others that don’t want trans people or cross-dressers with their children, that they are wrong.

that’s where I am with that.

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2 hours ago, jc856 said:

 

many boys were dressed as girls to avoid conscription and whatnot by mommies who wanted to protect their sons.

 

If we're looking at historical examples in this vein, it's important to point out there are examples of women dressing as men in order to BE conscripted as well.  Joan of Arc and Hua Mulan obviously jump out.  

Some may argue that the fact that we can only think of a couple examples speaks to it being a rare occurrence, but it's just as plausible that many instances have been deliberately lost to time.  After all, if it became common knowledge that women were serving capably in the military that makes it harder to justify their continued exclusion.  The powers that be would want to make sure that debate never arises because it would call into question both  a) their judgment and  2) the greater societal expectations of "the fairer sex" in general.  

 

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7 minutes ago, LIBills said:

You should watch the All in the Family episodes with Beverly. Sad, especially the last episode Beverly was in.

Is that the one where Archie gave mouth-to-mouth to a cross dressing performer?

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4 minutes ago, jc856 said:

 

I also can’t tell someone like Rich or AB or any others that don’t want trans people or cross-dressers with their children, that they are wrong.

that’s where I am with that.

I have no problem with anyone not wanting to take their kids to Drag Queen Story Hour. 

I DO have a problem with people not wanting to take their kids to Drag Queen Story Hour because they believe the drag queens want to turn straight kids gay and cis kids trans for the purposes of softening them up for future sexual relationships, or whatever the exact conspiracy is.  I also have a problem with people who don't want ANYBODY to have the legal right to go to Drag Queen Story Hour.

If it's just not your thing, that's fine.  Nobody should make you like drag lest you be called a bigot.  But the fact remains that some people don't like drag because they are bigots and giving those people any sort of political cachet can only ever lead to social ostracization of the group they are bigoted toward.  It's pretty clear that most of the people on this forum who wouldn't take their kids to Drag Queen Story Hour fall into the latter category, IMO.

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12 minutes ago, LIBills said:

I actually cried when I watched it as a kid.

I lovely Beverly. Great character.

I've always found it very odd that Hipkat laments this bygone era where Archie Bunker was allowed to be openly bigoted whereas nowadays when he calls people n***ers and f***ots it's suddenly a faux pas.  All In The Family was a very progressive show, and Archie was always intended to lampoon the sentiments that Hip wishes he could espouse free of social consequence.  

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4 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

I've always found it very odd that Hipkat laments this bygone era where Archie Bunker was allowed to be openly bigoted whereas nowadays when he calls people n***ers and f***ots it's suddenly a faux pas.  All In The Family was a very progressive show, and Archie was always intended to lampoon the sentiments that Hip wishes he could espouse free of social consequence.  

You ever debate him on this issue???

 

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15 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

I have no problem with anyone not wanting to take their kids to Drag Queen Story Hour. 

I DO have a problem with people not wanting to take their kids to Drag Queen Story Hour because they believe the drag queens want to turn straight kids gay and cis kids trans for the purposes of softening them up for future sexual relationships, or whatever the exact conspiracy is.  I also have a problem with people who don't want ANYBODY to have the legal right to go to Drag Queen Story Hour.

If it's just not your thing, that's fine.  Nobody should make you like drag lest you be called a bigot.  But the fact remains that some people don't like drag because they are bigots and giving those people any sort of political cachet can only ever lead to social ostracization of the group they are bigoted toward.  It's pretty clear that most of the people on this forum who wouldn't take their kids to Drag Queen Story Hour fall into the latter category, IMO.

I don’t understand the flamboyance of drag. I understand homosexuality, but not drag. 
 

what is it about the “glam” facet of gayness that needs to be expressed?

I look at drag as a lifestyle, like bikers, or something.
 

But I can see how people don’t want a certain lifestyle to influence their children. Like goth, or juggalos or for that matter, strict fundamentalist religionists.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

If we're looking at historical examples in this vein, it's important to point out there are examples of women dressing as men in order to BE conscripted as well.  Joan of Arc and Hua Mulan obviously jump out.  

Some may argue that the fact that we can only think of a couple examples speaks to it being a rare occurrence, but it's just as plausible that many instances have been deliberately lost to time.  After all, if it became common knowledge that women were serving capably in the military that makes it harder to justify their continued exclusion.  The powers that be would want to make sure that debate never arises because it would call into question both  a) their judgment and  2) the greater societal expectations of "the fairer sex" in general.  

 

Do you have examples, or is this baseless supposition?

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Just now, jc856 said:

I don’t understand the flamboyance of drag. I understand homosexuality, but not drag. 
 

what is it about the “glam” facet of gayness that needs to be expressed?

 

I think it's about celebrating that nowadays they CAN express it without social and/or legal consequences.  There used to be an unwritten rule in New York, cited by both the LGBTQ community as well as cops, that essentially gave cops license to arrest anybody wearing 3 or more gender-non-conforming articles of clothing.  

https://www.history.com/news/stonewall-riots-lgbtq-drag-three-article-rule

Since drag queens and trans people were so instrumental to the movement for LGBTQ acceptance, it's only natural that many queer people would believe it's important to preserve the tradition.  

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4 minutes ago, jc856 said:

Do you have examples, or is this baseless supposition?

It's supposition, but I'd argue it's far from baseless.  The base I offer in the rest of the post makes sense, doesn't it?  The patriarchy isn't a myth or anything.  Women were routinely passed over for royal/noble inheritance, so landowning men would find it in their own best interests not to let notions of equality between sexes gain any sort of traction.  After all, if the serfs realized they had this whole new viable pool of recruits for mob uprisings that creates a whole new threat to the aristocracy.



 

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16 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

It's supposition, but I'd argue it's far from baseless.  The base I offer in the rest of the post makes sense, doesn't it?  The patriarchy isn't a myth or anything.  Women were routinely passed over for royal/noble inheritance, so landowning men would find it in their own best interests not to let notions of equality between sexes gain any sort of traction.  After all, if the serfs realized they had this whole new viable pool of recruits for mob uprisings that creates a whole new threat to the aristocracy.



 

Um, I have vague recollections of the role mother Mary played in how women were treated. I forget the particulars, will have to look up when I can. I could be wrong.

are you making assertions that the roles of man and woman have been indoctrinated into us by (whatever powers that be, kings and queens, popes, banksters, etc)?
 

certainly seems plausible. Especially when there is a book, that says that the Creator created man and woman. That is good enough for a great number of people.

 

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34 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

I think it's about celebrating that nowadays they CAN express it without social and/or legal consequences.  There used to be an unwritten rule in New York, cited by both the LGBTQ community as well as cops, that essentially gave cops license to arrest anybody wearing 3 or more gender-non-conforming articles of clothing.  

https://www.history.com/news/stonewall-riots-lgbtq-drag-three-article-rule

Since drag queens and trans people were so instrumental to the movement for LGBTQ acceptance, it's only natural that many queer people would believe it's important to preserve the tradition.  

Preserving a tradition doesn’t have to involve kids, does it?

the local moose lodge has traditions too🤷‍♂️

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4 minutes ago, jc856 said:

 

are you making assertions that the roles of man and woman have been indoctrinated into us by (whatever powers that be, kings and queens, popes, banksters, etc)?
 

 

 

Certainly to some extent, yeah.  That's how systems of oppression work.  Women weren't suddenly suitable voters in the late 19th/early 20th century, right?  It's not like black people were NATURALLY predisposed to enslavement until they evolved some sort of freedom gene in 1865.  People tend to be pretty credulous of the state of the world they're raised in.  We sorta take for granted that things must be the way they are for a good reason, but it is clearly historically observable that sometimes the reasons are decidedly not good.

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1 hour ago, LIBills said:

You should watch the All in the Family episodes with Beverly. Sad, especially the last episode Beverly was in.

Shit I remember that

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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1 hour ago, LIBills said:

You ever debate him on this issue???

 

He can't I keep his stupid shit on ignore

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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