Are you willing to die for Ukraine?

[ICRockets2]

15 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

So, you would guess after the hypothetical exodus that the vast majority of those who remained in Crimea would rather be citizens of Russia?

I have no idea.  We'd need reliable polling to determine that.  

[ICRockets2]

3 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Damn….

"Look at me!  I'm a child!"

[shiva2999]

2 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

I have no idea.  We'd need reliable polling to determine that.  

So, while its possible they wish they were Ukrainian, it's also possible they're more than happy to be Russian?

[Herodotus]

43 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

So, while its possible they wish they were Ukrainian, it's also possible they're more than happy to be Russian?

Here is the thing about ICWeiner, and what is and is not Ukrainian:

Town in Donbass gets shelled or is near Kharkov or Kiev, like say Bucha and the Ukrainians shoot its civilians for being pro Russian.  When the Ukes shell that town, the people of the town are Russian or pro Russian.  Read the Ukronazis on twitter and they call the people of Donbass, "pigs, subhuman, collaborators."  Well while the Kiev forces are committing genocide the people in those areas are not Ukrainian.  Then, once the town is liberated and the bodies are found, the crocodile tears rain and yesterday's "pig, subhuman, pro Russian," is today's Ukrainian victim of Russian "ethnic cleansing."  Oh and ICWeiner, I know you and F8talnazicocksucker love pretending this thing only started on Feb 24, but here is something my dear schizowoke lunatic, that you need to know about the 14,000 in the Donbass that are Ukrainain too.  Here is what your hero Porkypigoshenko said about these Ukrainians:

Yeah, sounds like he didn't shell the people at the Donbass at all and that the Russians are the ones who killed Ukrainians.  

Now lets talks Crimea, you schizowoke shit.  One of the reasons that the Russians liberated Kherson is that there is a dam there that supplied Crimea with drinking water before 2014.  Now if the vulgur Nazis in Kiev thought of the people of Crimea as Ukrainian, why did they dam up the river that supplied drinking water to Crimea? Why did they shut off electricity to the peninsula?  Hmmm?  I mean was it to win hearts and minds or was it to punish them for voting to not be slaughtered.  IF Ukraine does take Donbass and Crimea millions of people will be slaughtered.

Now lets talk about the Trade Unions building in Odessa.  Why did the Ukrainians burn some 50 pro Russian people and badly wound another 200?  Hmmm? I know it didn't happen after the war magically started in Feb 2022 ya fat fucking schizowoke nazi bastard but while you can look at your TV and hope to find a story that fits the narrative, just remember you are a shitbag nazi supporter.  So go ahead, call me a fascist and a bad person and demand that Lit make an exception and ban my ass.  Go on you disgusting piece of garbage.  Get Hip to say with you that I will shoot up a school when you are the one with the history of supporting Nazis, telling people to kill themselves, and threatening violence with violence.  I really do hope you get the therapy you so desperately needs because its abundantly clear that your meds aren't helping you

[ICRockets2]

3 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

Here is the thing about ICWeiner, and what is and is not Ukrainian:

Town in Donbass gets shelled or is near Kharkov or Kiev, like say Bucha and the Ukrainians shoot its civilians for being pro Russian.  When the Ukes shell that town, the people of the town are Russian or pro Russian.  Read the Ukronazis on twitter and they call the people of Donbass, "pigs, subhuman, collaborators."  Well while the Kiev forces are committing genocide the people in those areas are not Ukrainian.  Then, once the town is liberated and the bodies are found, the crocodile tears rain and yesterday's "pig, subhuman, pro Russian," is today's Ukrainian victim of Russian "ethnic cleansing."  Oh and ICWeiner, I know you and F8talnazicocksucker love pretending this thing only started on Feb 24, but here is something my dear schizowoke lunatic, that you need to know about the 14,000 in the Donbass that are Ukrainain too.  Here is what your hero Porkypigoshenko said about these Ukrainians:

Yeah, sounds like he didn't shell the people at the Donbass at all and that the Russians are the ones who killed Ukrainians.  

Now lets talks Crimea, you schizowoke shit.  One of the reasons that the Russians liberated Kherson is that there is a dam there that supplied Crimea with drinking water before 2014.  Now if the vulgur Nazis in Kiev thought of the people of Crimea as Ukrainian, why did they dam up the river that supplied drinking water to Crimea? Why did they shut off electricity to the peninsula?  Hmmm?  I mean was it to win hearts and minds or was it to punish them for voting to not be slaughtered.  IF Ukraine does take Donbass and Crimea millions of people will be slaughtered.

Now lets talk about the Trade Unions building in Odessa.  Why did the Ukrainians burn some 50 pro Russian people and badly wound another 200?  Hmmm? I know it didn't happen after the war magically started in Feb 2022 ya fat fucking schizowoke nazi bastard but while you can look at your TV and hope to find a story that fits the narrative, just remember you are a shitbag nazi supporter.  So go ahead, call me a fascist and a bad person and demand that Lit make an exception and ban my ass.  Go on you disgusting piece of garbage.  Get Hip to say with you that I will shoot up a school when you are the one with the history of supporting Nazis, telling people to kill themselves, and threatening violence with violence.  I really do hope you get the therapy you so desperately needs because its abundantly clear that your meds aren't helping you

This is an incoherent rambling mess.  Take one part of it, put it into words that express a coherent and rational thought process, and I'll respond to that.  If I see words like Bidet, Ukronazi, ICWeiner,, Schizowoke, etc I will ignore it.  

I'm more than happy to have a conversation with you, but you have to demonstrate at least a crumb of sanity to be treated as though you're capable of having that conversation.

[Herodotus]

1 hour ago, ICRockets2 said:

This is an incoherent rambling mess.  Take one part of it, put it into words that express a coherent and rational thought process, and I'll respond to that.  If I see words like Bidet, Ukronazi, ICWeiner,, Schizowoke, etc I will ignore it.  

I'm more than happy to have a conversation with you, but you have to demonstrate at least a crumb of sanity to be treated as though you're capable of having that conversation.

You first nazi schizowoke.

[ICRockets2]

3 hours ago, Herodotus said:

You first nazi schizowoke.

 

[shiva2999]

https://consortiumnews.com/2022/11/02/caitlin-johnstone-destroying-western-values-to-defend-western-values/

 

Destroying Western Values To Defend Western Values

November 2, 2022

 

Caitlin Johnstone

So it turns out the U.S. intelligence cartel has been working intimately with online platforms to regulate the “cognitive infrastructure” of the population. This is according to a new investigative report by The Intercept, based on documents obtained through leaks and an ongoing lawsuit, on the “retooling” of the Department of Homeland Security from an agency focused on counterterrorism to one increasingly focused on fighting “misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation” online.

While the DHS’s hotly controversial “Disinformation Governance Board” was shut down in response to public outcry, The Intercept report reveals what authors Lee Fang and Ken Klippenstein describe as “an expansive effort by the agency to influence tech platforms” in order to “curb speech it considers dangerous”:

“According to a draft copy of DHS’s Quadrennial Homeland Security Review, DHS’s capstone report outlining the department’s strategy and priorities in the coming years, the department plans to target ‘inaccurate information’ on a wide range of topics, including ‘the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic and the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines, racial justice, U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the nature of U.S. support to Ukraine.’ ”

 

 

 

The report reveals pervasive efforts on the part of the DHS and its Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), along with the F.B.I., to push massive online platforms like Facebook, Instagram and Twitter to censor content in order to suppress “threats” as broad as fomenting distrust in the U.S. government and U.S. financial institutions.

“There is also a formalized process for government officials to directly flag content on Facebook or Instagram and request that it be throttled or suppressed through a special Facebook portal that requires a government or law enforcement email to use,” The Intercept reports.

“Emails between DHS officials, Twitter, and the Center for Internet Security outline the process for such takedown requests during the period leading up to November 2020,” says The Intercept. “Meeting notes show that the tech platforms would be called upon to ‘process reports and provide timely responses, to include the removal of reported misinformation from the platform where possible.’”

While these government agencies contend that they are not technically forcing these tech platforms to remove content, The Intercept argues that its investigation shows “CISA’s goal is to make platforms more responsive to their suggestions,” while critics argue that “suggestions” from immensely powerful institutions will never be taken as mere suggestions.

“When the government suggests things, it’s not too hard to pull off the velvet glove, and you get the mail fist,” Michigan State University’s Adam Candeub tells The Intercept. “And I would consider such actions, especially when it’s bureaucratized, as essentially state action and government collusion with the platforms.”

The current CISA chief is seen justifying this aggressive government thought policing by creepily referring to the means people use to gather information and form thoughts about the world as “our cognitive infrastructure”:

“Jen Easterly, Biden’s appointed director of CISA, swiftly made it clear that she would continue to shift resources in the agency to combat the spread of dangerous forms of information on social media. ‘One could argue we’re in the business of critical infrastructure, and the most critical infrastructure is our cognitive infrastructure, so building that resilience to misinformation and disinformation, I think, is incredibly important,’ said Easterly, speaking at a conference in November 2021.”

Another CISA official is seen suggesting the agency launder its manipulations through third-party nonprofits “to avoid the appearance of government propaganda”:

“To accomplish these broad goals, the report said, CISA should invest in external research to evaluate the ‘efficacy of interventions,’ specifically with research looking at how alleged disinformation can be countered and how quickly messages spread. Geoff Hale, the director of the Election Security Initiative at CISA, recommended the use of third-party information-sharing nonprofits as a ‘clearing house for trust information to avoid the appearance of government propaganda.’”

But as a former American Civil Liberties Union president tells The Intercept, if this were happening in any government the U.S. doesn’t like there’d be no qualms about calling it what it is:

“ ‘If a foreign authoritarian government sent these messages,’ noted Nadine Strossen, the former president of the American Civil Liberties Union, ‘there is no doubt we would call it censorship.’”

Indeed, this report is just another example of the way Western powers are behaving more and more like the autocracies they claim to despise, all in the name of preserving the values the West purports to uphold. As The Intercept reminds us, this business of the U.S. government assigning itself the responsibility of regulating America’s “cognitive infrastructure” originated with the “allegation that Russian agents had seeded disinformation on Facebook that tipped the 2016 election toward Donald Trump.” To this day that agenda continues to expand into things like plots to censor speech about the war in Ukraine.

Other examples of this trend coming out at the same time include Alan MacLeod’s new report with Mintpress News that hundreds of former agents from the notorious Israeli spying organization Unit 8200 are now working in positions of influence at major tech companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Amazon (just the latest in MacLeod’s ongoing documentation of the way intelligence insiders have been increasingly populating the ranks of Silicon Valley platforms), and the revelation that The Grayzone’s Max Blumenthal and Aaron Maté were barred from participating in a Web Summit conference due to pressure from the Ukrainian government.

 

We’re destroying Western values to defend Western values. To win its much-touted struggle of “democracies vs autocracies,“ Western civilization is becoming more and more autocratic. Censoring more. Trolling more. Propagandizing more. Jailing journalists. Becoming less and less transparent. Manipulating information and people’s understanding of truth.

 

We’re told we need to defeat Russia in Ukraine in order to preserve Western values of freedom and democracy, and in order to facilitate that aim we’re getting less and less free speech. Less and less free thought. Less and less free press. Less and less democracy.

I keep thinking of the (fictional) story where during World War II, the U.K. Prime Minister Winston Churchill is advised to cut funding for the arts to boost military funding, and he responds, “Then what are we fighting for?” If we need to sacrifice everything we claim to value in order to fight for those values, what are we fighting for?

Dissent is becoming less and less tolerated. Public discourse is being more and more aggressively disrupted by the powerful. We’re being shaped into the exact sort of homogeneous, power-serving, tyrannized, propagandized population that our leaders criticize other nations for having.

If the powerful are becoming more tyrannical in order to fight tyranny, what’s probably actually happening is that they are just tyrants making up excuses to do the thing they’ve always wanted to do.

As Westerners in “liberal democracies” we are told that our society holds free speech, free thought and accountability for the powerful as sacrosanct.

Our leaders are showing us that this is a lie.

The problem with “Western values” is that the west doesn’t value them.

In reality, those who best exemplify “Western values” as advertised are the ones who are being most aggressively silenced and marginalized by Western powers. The real journalists. The dissidents. The skeptics. The free thinkers. The peace activists. Those who refuse to bow down to their rulers.

Our ongoing descent into tyranny in the name of opposing tyrants calls forth a very simple question: if defeating autocracy requires becoming an autocracy, what’s the point of defeating autocracy?

 

 

[ICRockets2]

3 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

 

As Westerners in “liberal democracies” we are told that our society holds free speech, free thought and accountability for the powerful as sacrosanct.

 

 

 

I'm not sure these are possible to protect together anymore.  You cannot have unrestricted free speech AND accountability for the powerful.  If we had the latter, we'd have to restrict the reach of propaganda orgs like PragerU and that arguably restricts their free speech.  What is the solution to this?  What is government's role in finding that solution?

[shiva2999]

1 hour ago, ICRockets2 said:

I'm not sure these are possible to protect together anymore.  You cannot have unrestricted free speech AND accountability for the powerful. 

No one is suggesting unrestricted free speech, however it's undeniable that restricting free speech is a benefit to the powerful.

Is it not?

[f8ta1ity54]

16 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

No one is suggesting unrestricted free speech, however it's undeniable that restricting free speech is a benefit to the powerful.

Is it not?

how would limiting elon/trump/alex jones/kanye ability to push conspiracies that are polarizing the US give them more power? 

[shiva2999]

1 hour ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

how would limiting elon/trump/alex jones/kanye ability to push conspiracies that are polarizing the US give them more power? 

Huh?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Are you saying that no one ever conspires?

Could it be the fact that the American power structure lies it's ass off all the time might be contributing to skeptical attitudes?

 

[f8ta1ity54]

Just now, shiva2999 said:

Huh?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Are you saying that no one ever conspires?

Could it be the fact that the American power structure lies it's ass off all the time might be contributing to skeptical attitudes?

 

How would not allowing the powerful to push election lies, COVID lies, and antisemitism give them more power?

[shiva2999]

18 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

How would not allowing the powerful to push election lies, COVID lies, and antisemitism give them more power?

Are you proposing making it illegal to be wrong?

[Herodotus]

Just now, shiva2999 said:

Are you proposing making it illegal to be wrong?

When you are dealing with F8tfuck and weiner, keep in mind their mindset

[shiva2999]

 

[ICRockets2]

2 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

How would not allowing the powerful to push election lies, COVID lies, and antisemitism give them more power?

It's wild that the only responses you got to this question that could not possibly be more relevant to the topic shiva ostensibly woke up itching to discuss were "I don't understand" and "sometimes people are mistaken" when we're talking about shit like "Sandy Hook didn't happen and these so-called parents are demons in human flesh" and "the Holocaust didn't happen and these so-called Jews are demons in human flesh".  

Something tells me that shit isn't an honest misunderstanding of the facts at hand.

[shiva2999]

42 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

It's wild that the only responses you got to this question that could not possibly be more relevant to the topic shiva ostensibly woke up itching to discuss were "I don't understand" and "sometimes people are mistaken" when we're talking about shit like "Sandy Hook didn't happen and these so-called parents are demons in human flesh" and "the Holocaust didn't happen and these so-called Jews are demons in human flesh".  

Something tells me that shit isn't an honest misunderstanding of the facts at hand.

Or someone is trying to change the subject.

What Sandy Hook and the Holocaust have to do with a willingness to die for Ukraine is beyond me.

And if you'll notice, no one yet has volunteered to buy the Ukrainian farm.

Cowards.

[ICRockets2]

2 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Or someone is trying to change the subject.

 

You posted an article about disinfo, so we're trying to talk about disinfo.  

You fucking clown.

[shiva2999]

45 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

You posted an article about disinfo, so we're trying to talk about disinfo.  

You fucking clown.

Disinfo.

You're trying to change the subject.

You've turned into a mewling apologist for monstrous evil.

You know that, don't you?

 

[ICRockets2]

8 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

 

You've turned into a mewling apologist for monstrous evil.

 

I'm not the one who doesn't believe Assad used chemical weapons in Douma.

[shiva2999]

2 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

I'm not the one who doesn't believe Assad used chemical weapons in Douma.

Excellent! Keep going. This is getting more and more interesting.

You've done a pretty good job so far.

Don't let the mask slip too much.

[ICRockets2]

9 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Excellent! Keep going. This is getting more and more interesting.

You've done a pretty good job so far.

Don't let the mask slip too much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The first reports of forced,from Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.

[shiva2999]

9 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The first reports of forced,from Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.

LOL!

Let's hope they're fucking them before they eat them.

Keep going!

[micknaboz]

I'll fight for them as long as I get to be the one to put the  bullet between Putin's eyes!