Are you willing to die for Ukraine?

[shiva2999]

Well, are you?

If your death alone could guarantee Ukraine the freedom to do whatever the **** it wants, would you welcome it?

And if your death alone couldn't give Ukraine the freedom it's virtue deserves, how many other lives are you willing to sacrifice to let Ukraine turn their country into a Banderite utopia?

https://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Gal...raine-lobby-2/

Why Are Critics Afraid To Confront the Ukraine Lobby?

by Ted Galen Carpenter Posted onNovember 01, 2022

There is a concerted effort in the United States and Europe to intimidate, smear, and silence anyone who dares criticize Ukraine’s government or the Biden administration’s policy on the Russia-Ukraine war. The latest example was the decision of the Congressional Progressive Caucus to retract an open letter it had sent to the president just days earlier urging him to give higher priority to diplomacy as a way of ending the bloodshed. Representative Pramila Jayapal (D-WA), chair of the caucus, offered an explanation that quickly drew derision from multiple quarters. "The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting."

Ironically, the letter itself was a rather tepid venture. Indeed, the signatories went out of their way to emphasize their support for Ukraine and praise the Biden administration for the financial and military aid it had given to Kyiv. The fawning opening paragraph epitomized the tone. "We write with appreciation for your commitment to Ukraine’s legitimate struggle against Russia’s war of aggression. Your support for the self-defense of an independent, sovereign, and democratic state has been supported by Congress, including through various appropriations of military, economic and humanitarian aid in furtherance of this cause. Your administration’s policy was critical to enable the Ukrainian people, through their courageous fighting and heroic sacrifices, to deal a historic military defeat to Russia, forcing Russia to dramatically scale back the stated goals of the invasion."

However, the letter went on to advocate a limited course modification. "Given the destruction created by this war for Ukraine and the world, as well as the risk of catastrophic escalation, we also believe it is in the interests of Ukraine, the United States, and the world to avoid a prolonged conflict. For this reason, we urge you to pair the military and economic support the United States has provided to Ukraine with a proactive diplomatic push,
redoubling efforts to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire." The pro-war lobby’s response made it clear that even such modest apostasy would not be tolerated.

The cowardly retreat by the Congressional Progressive Caucus is not the only recent example of opponents of the current policy caving under pressure. In August, Amnesty International issued a report criticizing Ukraine’s military for using civilians as human shields and committing other abuses in its war effort. Predictably, the report generated a political, diplomatic and media firestorm that Kyiv orchestrated. Ukraine’s supporters in the West even accused Amnesty of echoing Vladimir Putin’s propaganda – a smear that should be even less credible than the usual attempts to silence criticism of Volodymyr Zelensky’s regime. In reality, the report was well-supported by multiple forms of evidence.

Faced with the tsunami of vilification, Amnesty officials sought to placate their critics while still standing by the accuracy of the document. They issued a statement regretting any "distress and anger" the report might have caused. That ploy did not satiate Kyiv’s zealous supporters. Multiple Amnesty officials connected to the report resigned under pressure during the following weeks. When a brave and honorable organization like Amnesty International has to throw its own personnel to the wolves, it is compelling evidence of the dangerous strength of the Ukraine lobby in the West.

Perhaps the retreat by the Congressional Progressive Caucus and Amnesty International should not be all that surprising, given the well-funded propaganda effort to back Kyiv without reservation and to harass and smear anyone who challenges that narrative. At times, Ukraine and its Western supporters have fostered a campaign of outright neo-McCarthyism, utterly chilling debate regarding policy toward the Zelensky government. The overall pro-Ukraine propaganda campaign was underway long before Russia invaded Ukraine, but it has grown much worse since then.

The level of intimidation that Ukraine’s Western political and media allies foster, though, pales compared to the menace flowing directly from Kyiv. Zelensky and his colleagues have no tolerance for even the most peaceful opponents, domestic or foreign. The willingness to target and attempt to intimidate foreign critics became abundantly clear this summer when his government’s Center for Countering Disinformation (partly funded by U.S. taxpayers, no less) published a "blacklist" of such opponents. Numerous prominent Americans were on that list, including University of Chicago Professor (and renowned foreign policy realist), John Mearsheimer, Fox News host Tucker Carlson, former congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, and Cato Institute Senior Fellow Doug Bandow.

Responding to the publication of that list, especially its inclusion of Bandow and other scholars, Cato Institute President Peter Goettler, published an article denouncing such behavior. He warned that "this kind of action – the establishment of ill‐advised truth and disinformation bureaus, and the unfair smearing of eminent scholars – does nothing to burnish Ukraine’s reputation as an aspiring liberal democracy." It is a reputation that Kyiv has never truly deserved.

The ominous, threatening nature of the blacklist became even clearer in late September, when the CCD issued a revised roster (including addresses) of the top 35 targets in early October. That narrower, high-priority list denounced those critics as "disinformation terrorists" and "war criminals." Several Ukrainian and Russian individuals on the blacklist have already been assassinated, with open praise from the creators and stewards of the list. Thus far, no Americans or other Westerners have met that fate, but describing critics as terrorists and war criminals does nothing to discourage fanatics from taking direct action.

Despite risks to budgets, careers, and perhaps even lives, it is imperative that critics of the Kyiv government and the ongoing war not be intimidated by the Ukraine lobby’s thought police. The United States is sending billions of dollars in aid to a thoroughly corrupt, increasing autocratic regime. Worse, Washington is incurring grave risks, including the danger of nuclear war with Russia, to protect a client state of little intrinsic economic or strategic value to America. Such policies should be the subject of in-depth discussions and vigorous debate. The Congressional Progressive Caucus’s ignominious retreat under pressure sends the opposite message.

[SpikedLemonade]

I can't die for Ukraine since i have already given my life to Jesus.

 

 

 

[Herodotus]

I am willing to let Lit, Hip, Frawk, ICR, Mick, F8t and co die for Ukraine.  They want to die so much for Nazis let em go there.  Maybe seeing the Nazi heraldry up close in person will shatter their disillusions.  Me personally? I don't want to die because they support nuclear fueled extinction in defense of Nazi Banderastan

[Toofast80]

HELL NO!  This is why I DESPISE most politicians, they sit on their “high horse” and wage wars over things that should be settled by other parties. Stay the fuck out of these “nation building” efforts/wars 🤷‍♂️👍👌!!

[Toofast80]

18 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

I am willing to let Lit, Hip, Frawk, ICR, Mick, F8t and co die for Ukraine.  They want to die so much for Nazis let em go there.  Maybe seeing the Nazi heraldry up close in person will shatter their disillusions.  Me personally? I don't want to die because they support nuclear fueled extinction in defense of Nazi Banderastan

Putin is NOT Hitler, he’s NOT going to try and expand Russian influence throughout the world by force!!! 

[shiva2999]

41 minutes ago, SpikedLemonade said:

I can't die for Ukraine since i have already given my life to Jesus.

 

 

Just a reminder, Putin is a Christian, Zelensky is a Jew.

Make of that what you will...

[shiva2999]

https://www.cantonrep.com/story/opinion/columns/2017/03/26/where-have-you-gone-boris/21889529007/

 

Canton

 

Show caption

 

THE REPOSITORY

OPINION

 

Where have you gone, Boris and Natasha?

---

Charita Goshay  |  charita.goshay@cantonrep.com

I was a "Sputnik" baby, which means I grew up as a "Cold War" kid. One of the staples of this era of American childhood was the cartoon, "The Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle."

Because all cartoons require a suspension of disbelief, it didn't occur to wonder why a moose and a flying squirrel might be best friends, let alone serve as America's last, best hope in fighting communism.

Despite our very limited life experience, there was one thing we kids knew: Americans were good, and the Soviets were bad. That badness was embodied in "Boris Badenov" and "Natasha Fatale," a pair of inept Soviet spies whose mission to spy on the U.S. was constantly thwarted by Rocky and Bullwinkle; well, mostly Rocky.

No one used the term "cold war" at home. Such concerns were left up to the government, back when we trusted little more than we should have. Certainly, it is not what the Founders intended. James Madison said, "The essence of government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse."

Murder Inc.

Was "The Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle" propaganda? Probably. Looking back, it's clear that the underlying message wasn't just aimed so much at kids but also their folks; people who had emerged from World War II with good reason to fear the Soviets, who, by the 1960s, had abandoned all pretense of wanting to see a democratic Europe.

Adults were the ones who had to worry whether Nikita Khrushchev meant what he said about burying America. So, perhaps it was the intent of the cartoon's creators to diffuse some of that fear by making fun of the monster beneath the bed. 

But some still seeped through. Imagine being a child and giggling at "Rocky & Bullwinkle" but also hearing that the Soviets had a secret "bombing" map that included Canton because of our steel mills.

Imagine, then, reaching adulthood, only to hear some Americans extolling the virtues of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Their reasoning? Putin is a "strong" leader, which diminishes and papers over what he actually is: A lying, murderous, thieving, despotic sociopath.

Even some American evangelicals are in thrall with Putin because of his anti-gay stance, though his regime has killed and/or imprisoned more pro-democracy critics, journalists and dissidents than Murder Inc.

Mom jeans

The same people who clamor about moral ambiguity and whine about encroachments on their rights are "curiously incurious" as columinst Maureeen Dowd puts it, about Putin's incursions to crush freedom in Ukraine and Syria, all while meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

Here's how you know you live in freedom: We laughed at former President George W. Bush's malapropisms and former President Barack Obama's ill-fitting "mom" jeans and no one died for it.

Who in Russia would dare tell Putin that, when he's bare-chested and astride a horse, he looks like one of the Village People?  

Despite whatever decency Bush imagined he saw within Putin's soul, no one today can be that naive. There is no circumstance under which Putin's Russia can be trusted. None. Any American who continues to spin or defend Putin does so out of pure willful greed, or some twisted definition of nationalism. The thing about Boris and Natasha, they never pretended to be anything else but what they were: America-hating spies. 

Once upon a time, the line was so clear, even a child could see it

 

[f8ta1ity54]

Are you guys willing to go to Ukraine to kill Nazis?

what a stupid thread.

I dont want war, but the "America bad" crowd here has been cheering on the Russian invasion since day one.

Russia is the only one that can stop this at any time.

Putin will not stop at Ukraine. At which time, the "America bad" crowd will continue to defend Russia.

[shiva2999]

3 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Are you guys willing to go to Ukraine to kill Nazis?

what a stupid thread.

I dont want war, but the "America bad" crowd here has been cheering on the Russian invasion since day one.

Russia is the only one that can stop this at any time.

Putin will not stop at Ukraine. At which time, the "America bad" crowd will continue to defend Russia.

First Ukraine, THEN THE WORLD!!!

Bwahahahahahaha!!!

[f8ta1ity54]

Just now, shiva2999 said:

First Ukraine, THEN THE WORLD!!!

Bwahahahahahaha!!!

Yea, there is absolutely no precedent of authoritarians ever invading and conquering their neighbors throughout history.

[shiva2999]

3 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Yea, there is absolutely no precedent of authoritarians ever invading and conquering their neighbors throughout history.

Actually, there is a precedent of a country threatening war because a neighboring country was willing and able to stage nuclear weapone on their territory at the behest of that country's enemies.

Cuba and the USA.

Sorry, but anyone that denies history and human behavior to justify their stupid opinions isn't worth taking seriously.

[f8ta1ity54]

9 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Actually, there is a precedent of a country threatening war because a neighboring country was willing and able to stage nuclear weapone on their territory at the behest of that country's enemies.

Cuba and the USA.

Sorry, but anyone that denies history and human behavior to justify their stupid opinions isn't worth taking seriously.

I know "America bad.", therefore the innocent people in Ukraine can get fucked buy another nuclear power. Cuz tHeRe bE NaZis erRYwheRe!

[shiva2999]

4 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

I know "America bad.", therefore the innocent people in Ukraine can get fucked buy another nuclear power. Cuz tHeRe bE NaZis erRYwheRe!

Drama queenery doesn't make your arguments any more convincing.

As for innocent people getting fucked by a next door nuclear neighbor, welcome to Canada, a country your country invaded once upon a time.

[Herodotus]

24 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Actually, there is a precedent of a country threatening war because a neighboring country was willing and able to stage nuclear weapone on their territory at the behest of that country's enemies.

Cuba and the USA.

Sorry, but anyone that denies history and human behavior to justify their stupid opinions isn't worth taking seriously.

 Now now Shiva, history began on Feb 24, nothing that happened before that day means anything.  Then f8fucker is a schizowoke shitlib who loves Nazis in Ukraine.  He's a hypocritical shitbag who takes what he sees on tv as gospel and calls those of us who oppose nuclear war, the Syrianization of Ukraine so that we can funnel arms and launder money through there, and know Bastard Obumfuck (hey shiva did you see the vid of the woman who called that turdbucket for starting this in 2014) started this war with cookie cunt Nuland tankies.

 

Well guess what f8t, you can call me a tankie if you wish.  I take your slur as an honor.  Just own up that you love US imperialism, forever wars, regime change, and nazis.  Fuck you you fat fascist fuck.

[f8ta1ity54]

7 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Drama queenery doesn't make your arguments any more convincing.

As for innocent people getting fucked by a next door nuclear neighbor, welcome to Canada, a country your country invaded once upon a time.

When you make a post about the unwarranted offensive Russian invasion of Ukraine that isn't littered with drama queenery, it will be your first. 

[shiva2999]

15 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

When you make a post about the unwarranted offensive Russian invasion of Ukraine that isn't littered with drama queenery, it will be your first. 

Running out of intelligent things to say about a subject generally points to partisanship and youdoittooism.

As does the assertion that Russia's actions are unwarranted.

[shiva2999]

Putin's speech at the Valdai Conference.

The comparison between Putin at the height of his powers compared to doddering oldJoe Biden who doesn't know where he is most of the time is almost ridiculous.

 

[HipKat]

3 hours ago, Herodotus said:

I am willing to let Lit, Hip, Frawk, ICR, Mick, F8t and co die for Ukraine.  They want to die so much for Nazis let em go there.  Maybe seeing the Nazi heraldry up close in person will shatter their disillusions.  Me personally? I don't want to die because they support nuclear fueled extinction in defense of Nazi Banderastan

You know, for somebody who read so much you would think that you would be smarter

[f8ta1ity54]

40 minutes ago, HipKat said:

You know, for somebody who read so much you would think that you would be smarter

Oh he reads a lot i'm sure. He's just getting his news directly from the kremlin->RT->tucker carlson-> jimmy dore pipe line. 

[shiva2999]

Speaking of Jimmy Dore, he has Aaron Mate guest hosting this week.

 

[HipKat]

2 hours ago, Herodotus said:

 Now now Shiva, history began on Feb 24, nothing that happened before that day means anything.  Then f8fucker is a schizowoke shitlib who loves Nazis in Ukraine.  He's a hypocritical shitbag who takes what he sees on tv as gospel and calls those of us who oppose nuclear war, the Syrianization of Ukraine so that we can funnel arms and launder money through there, and know Bastard Obumfuck (hey shiva did you see the vid of the woman who called that turdbucket for starting this in 2014) started this war with cookie cunt Nuland tankies.

 

Well guess what f8t, you can call me a tankie if you wish.  I take your slur as an honor.  Just own up that you love US imperialism, forever wars, regime change, and nazis.  Fuck you you fat fascist fuck.

It blows my mind the amount of absolute stupidity on this message board. I don’t know why you don’t just leave the horrible confines of Kansas City, USA and move road to fuck in Moscow. You can even take your Putin posters with you and if you’re lucky maybe you can even get them autographed by your hero, himself

[f8ta1ity54]

1 hour ago, HipKat said:

It blows my mind the amount of absolute stupidity on this message board. I don’t know why you don’t just leave the horrible confines of Kansas City, USA and move road to fuck in Moscow. You can even take your Putin posters with you and if you’re lucky maybe you can even get them autographed by your hero, himself

What Hero and Shiva dont realize is they are getting a heavy dose of misinformation regurgitated by grifters who claim to be leftists. Jimmy Dore, infrared, Caleb Maupin, Jackson Hinkle, and the like are just there to keep the left from uniting, and to grift off a niche community. The goal is to turn disgruntled leftists towards the talking points of the right. If you didn't know it was a grift, seeing these clowns push things like "MAGA Communism" should set off alarm bells. Pushing Force the vote on Medicare for all is another example of their grift. As if we already dont know who is for and against M4A in congress. All of their talking points are directly from Russia filtered through right wingers and faux leftists. They push "America bad" talking points so that they automatically and uncritically think America is always the bad guy. Jimmy Dore pushed Tulsi so fucking hard, and guess what? She's now a "republican" because of what, wokeism and cancel culture? Give me a fucking break. They want me to believe that she suddenly doesn't support any of the values of the democratic party because of accountability and supporting minority groups? She doesn't support the democratic party because of a small minority of crazy leftists that say dumb shit and dye their hair blue? But she has no problem with 1/6 and how the GOP is trying to downplay it, and make sure Daddy trump doesn't go to prison? She is buddy buddy with tucker carlson who is a fascist propagandist? the signs are all there, but they just dont want to admit they were fooled.

[shiva2999]

2 hours ago, HipKat said:

It blows my mind the amount of absolute stupidity on this message board. I don’t know why you don’t just leave the horrible confines of Kansas City, USA and move road to fuck in Moscow. You can even take your Putin posters with you and if you’re lucky maybe you can even get them autographed by your hero, himself

As for stupidity on a message board, the above is a perfect example.

[ICRockets2]

1 hour ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

What Hero and Shiva dont realize is they are getting a heavy dose of misinformation regurgitated by grifters who claim to be leftists. Jimmy Dore, infrared, Caleb Maupin, Jackson Hinkle, and the like are just there to keep the left from uniting, and to grift off a niche community. The goal is to turn disgruntled leftists towards the talking points of the right. If you didn't know it was a grift, seeing these clowns push things like "MAGA Communism" should set off alarm bells. Pushing Force the vote on Medicare for all is another example of their grift. As if we already dont know who is for and against M4A in congress. All of their talking points are directly from Russia filtered through right wingers and faux leftists. They push "America bad" talking points so that they automatically and uncritically think America is always the bad guy. Jimmy Dore pushed Tulsi so fucking hard, and guess what? She's now a "republican" because of what, wokeism and cancel culture? Give me a fucking break. They want me to believe that she suddenly doesn't support any of the values of the democratic party because of accountability and supporting minority groups? She doesn't support the democratic party because of a small minority of crazy leftists that say dumb shit and dye their hair blue? But she has no problem with 1/6 and how the GOP is trying to downplay it, and make sure Daddy trump doesn't go to prison? She is buddy buddy with tucker carlson who is a fascist propagandist? the signs are all there, but they just dont want to admit they were fooled.

You will never convince me shiva doesn't realize it.  

[shiva2999]

1 hour ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

What Hero and Shiva dont realize is they are getting a heavy dose of misinformation regurgitated by grifters who claim to be leftists. 

LOL!

Hero and Shiva have a different opinion of who the credulous fools and grifters really are.