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12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

it does not matter why. What matters is why it still is

It absolutely matters. History matters.

12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

See above. It does not matter when it started.

It still matters. You can't just pretend that centuries of racism didn't contribute to where the black community is today. Now, had the US government did some form of mass reparations for black people, and still nothing changed, then maybe you would have a point. 

12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

I think that they don’t, in many cases, consider anything else other than living off of the social welfare system because they have a defeatist attitude, not completely unfounded, that if they try to take advantage of whatever is out there to escape that generational inbreeding, they’ll be rejected. And they probably will. I would imagine that going way back in time when the government was doing whatever it felt was righteous in helping Black people by giving them, the old 40 acres and a mule call mom to be symbolic 

If the black community didn't have to deal with systemic racism in education, policing, the judicial system, voting, access to resources, etc., STILL, maybe you would have a point. Living in a ghetto where you see friends and family members die from violence and drugs, definitely has an affect on your state of mind. Telling someone coming from these experiences to just pull up your bootstraps does absolutely nothing.

You're basically saying to black people in poor communities, "I dont care about the history of racism and violence that put you in this position, and that I admit it still exists (hopefully), but I'm done listening to you complain about the problems you have. Even if you historically and currently can't do much about. You need to just go get a job that isnt there, or move somewhere with money and credit you dont have, to find a job you dont have the education for. Or just make a career at McDonalds or join the military."

 

12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

and see, this is where we separate because whatever it was that happened 200 years ago, 150 years ago, 100 years ago or 50 years ago, that was then this is now in Black people have done nothing for themselves except in individual cases.

Yes, this is one of your more brain dead takes. How and why were the irish and italians able make something of themselves, and get out of the ghettos?

12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

As a whole, the inner-city black community is targeted by police because that’s where the crime is.

Its also where the poverty is. poverty and wealth inequality are the biggest indicators for crime and violence.

12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

how many times if you hurt somebody from the hood say that they see drug dealers with a lot of money, a lot of girls, they see cars and they think why would I wanna go get a job when I can sell drugs and have this? So how is that the white man’s fault?

Well, we live in a period of time where that behavior is glorified by white record executives. I brought that up already. Can you blame them for thinking the same way when ghetto culture is glorified on TV screens? Why would they think any differently when their community has no meaningful employment, and their schools are underfunded, and the police are abusive to them as well? It's "the white mans" fault because they have historically been the one's making policy decisions.

12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

part of the problem nowadays, is that ghetto culture has become mainstream. So is that giving Black people the incentive to change? Like I’ve posted on here before. A man I know who is black and lives in the hood wants told me that white people need to change their perception of the black community and I said no Black people need to change the white man’s perception of the black community.

You can't blame just black people on ghetto culture's mainstream appeal. An incentive to change would be to rebuild these communities. 

It's an easy thing for you to say. The color of your skin is not holding you back in this country in any life altering way. White people dont have popular negative mainstream tropes being said about them every day, like that they are all violent and lazy. But from this conversation and others, I can tell that you just don't want to deal with this topic anymore. You just want "black people to fix their problems and stop complaining", or something similar, but you dont want to be bothered with thinking about historical events, and what a real solution means. 

12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Morgan Freeman was once interviewed by Don Lemon and asked about racism in America and his reply was to Don, it’s people like you that keep racism going in America by constantly talking about it and not doing anything about it. Morgan Freeman said for 50 years I never heard of racism until people like you started asking me about it

This is retarded. systemic racism in its many forms only exists because we talk about it? Morgan Freeman grew up in Tennessee and Mississippi in the 40s and 50s. Are you telling me that racism in those places still only exists today because we "still talk about it" or is it because we still see the policies that enable ghettos to exist. 

These are some brain dead takes man. Just because some people make it out of the ghetto and have successful careers, doesn't mean that racism is over and that anyone who isn't successful is a prisoner of their own defeatism. History matters. Not being able to acknowledge these problems still exist is what is keeping these problems going. Its why people continue to talk about them.

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18 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

It absolutely matters. History matters.

It still matters. You can't just pretend that centuries of racism didn't contribute to where the black community is today. Now, had the US government did some form of mass reparations for black people, and still nothing changed, then maybe you would have a point. 

If the black community didn't have to deal with systemic racism in education, policing, the judicial system, voting, access to resources, etc., STILL, maybe you would have a point. Living in a ghetto where you see friends and family members die from violence and drugs, definitely has an affect on your state of mind. Telling someone coming from these experiences to just pull up your bootstraps does absolutely nothing.

You're basically saying to black people in poor communities, "I dont care about the history of racism and violence that put you in this position, and that I admit it still exists (hopefully), but I'm done listening to you complain about the problems you have. Even if you historically and currently can't do much about. You need to just go get a job that isnt there, or move somewhere with money and credit you dont have, to find a job you dont have the education for. Or just make a career at McDonalds or join the military."

 

Yes, this is one of your more brain dead takes. How and why were the irish and italians able make something of themselves, and get out of the ghettos?

Its also where the poverty is. poverty and wealth inequality are the biggest indicators for crime and violence.

Well, we live in a period of time where that behavior is glorified by white record executives. I brought that up already. Can you blame them for thinking the same way when ghetto culture is glorified on TV screens? Why would they think any differently when their community has no meaningful employment, and their schools are underfunded, and the police are abusive to them as well? It's "the white mans" fault because they have historically been the one's making policy decisions.

You can't blame just black people on ghetto culture's mainstream appeal. An incentive to change would be to rebuild these communities. 

It's an easy thing for you to say. The color of your skin is not holding you back in this country in any life altering way. White people dont have popular negative mainstream tropes being said about them every day, like that they are all violent and lazy. But from this conversation and others, I can tell that you just don't want to deal with this topic anymore. You just want "black people to fix their problems and stop complaining", or something similar, but you dont want to be bothered with thinking about historical events, and what a real solution means. 

This is retarded. systemic racism in its many forms only exists because we talk about it? Morgan Freeman grew up in Tennessee and Mississippi in the 40s and 50s. Are you telling me that racism in those places still only exists today because we "still talk about it" or is it because we still see the policies that enable ghettos to exist. 

These are some brain dead takes man. Just because some people make it out of the ghetto and have successful careers, doesn't mean that racism is over and that anyone who isn't successful is a prisoner of their own defeatism. History matters. Not being able to acknowledge these problems still exist is what is keeping these problems going. Its why people continue to talk about them.

Systemic racism exists because you want it to exist. It does not matter how things got to where they are today. You cannot change the past but too many people are stuck living in the past. The only way to facilitate change is to actually change! On your own. Set a goal and make it happen. The time with my entire life. Like Morgan Freeman said in the interview, the fact that both of them are sitting there is proof that anybody can step outside of their community.

So no, what happened in the past is the past. The problem are too many people are still living in the past.

reparations are a joke. It’s another free handout. Are you going to just put a pile of money in somebody’s hands that has no experience and no education and what to do with that? That is asinine.

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“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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12 minutes ago, HipKat said:

. Like Morgan Freeman said in the interview, the fact that both of them are sitting there is proof that anybody can step outside of their community.

 

This is an incredibly stupid logical fallacy.  Even if we accept the premise that "anybody" can escape the ghetto, that doesn't mean everybody can escape the ghetto.  Even in a scenario where every single person living in poverty and squalor tries their hardest to make it out, it is impossible for more than a small percentage of them to succeed in the endeavor.  

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11 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Systemic racism exists because you want it to exist.

So black people are more likely to: be pulled over, be killled by police, serve longer prison sentences, come from poor schools, have worse healthcare outcomes, etc. 

All because I want it to be that way? So you are telling me, that if I NEVER mention these things, they will suddenly disappear? Wtf are you smoking?

11 minutes ago, HipKat said:

It does not matter how things got to where they are today.

History serves no purpose.? Is there nothing to learn from history?

11 minutes ago, HipKat said:

You cannot change the past but too many people are stuck living in the past. The only way to facilitate change is to actually change! On your own.

How are students from underfunded schools just going to turn into rocket scientists without the resources they need?

11 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Set a goal and make it happen.

You can set goals all you want but that doesn't mean shit. How is the 8 year old with no calculator, textbook, or internet, his mom is a crack head and dad is jail, who gets one meal a day from school going to reach his goal of being a math teacher? He just going to do it himself?

11 minutes ago, HipKat said:

The time with my entire life. Like Morgan Freeman said in the interview, the fact that both of them are sitting there is proof that anybody can step outside of their community.

sure, anyone can win the lottery too. Does winning the lottery prove everyone should buy lottery tickets every day?

11 minutes ago, HipKat said:

So no, what happened in the past is the past. The problem are too many people are still living in the past.

lol so your past has had no affect on your present, and will have none on your future?

11 minutes ago, HipKat said:

reparations are a joke. It’s another free handout. Are you going to just put a pile of money in somebody’s hands that has no experience and no education and what to do with that? That is asinine.

Nope. I never said that.

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22 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Systemic racism exists because you want it to exist. It does not matter how things got to where they are today. You cannot change the past but too many people are stuck living in the past. The only way to facilitate change is to actually change! On your own. Set a goal and make it happen. The time with my entire life. Like Morgan Freeman said in the interview, the fact that both of them are sitting there is proof that anybody can step outside of their community.

So no, what happened in the past is the past. The problem are too many people are still living in the past.

reparations are a joke. It’s another free handout. Are you going to just put a pile of money in somebody’s hands that has no experience and no education and what to do with that? That is asinine.

you're slow. Everyone who isnt a white liberal left winger  is racist. 

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50 minutes ago, RichJ said:

you're slow. Everyone who isnt a white liberal left winger  is racist. 

Well we already know I’m a racist. The Canadians have declared it so

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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1 hour ago, ICRockets2 said:

This is an incredibly stupid logical fallacy.  Even if we accept the premise that "anybody" can escape the ghetto, that doesn't mean everybody can escape the ghetto.  Even in a scenario where every single person living in poverty and squalor tries their hardest to make it out, it is impossible for more than a small percentage of them to succeed in the endeavor.  

One of your problems is that you group everybody together. Like our conversation the other night. It doesn’t matter what it holds true for most people. It’s the exception to you that you feel should be the rule. No, not everybody can escape the ghetto. Not everybody can be rich. Not everybody can be famous. Not everybody can be athletically gifted. The fact of the matter is though if you work hard at it and you follow proven methods of training and learning, you can’t be rich. You can get famous and you can in many cases, be athletically gifted. Maybe not professional athlete level but still gifted.

@f8ta1ity54

I forgot to answer your question as to why the Irish and the Italians escape the ghetto. Because they worked their fucking asses off instead of holding their hands out.

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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1 minute ago, ICRockets2 said:

God you are a stupid racist piece of shit.  Fuck you and kill yourself.  Your daughters will thank you.

this is why billszone banned you.  You're psycho. you should stay away from places that trigger your insanity. 

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57 minutes ago, HipKat said:

One of your problems is that you group everybody together. Like our conversation the other night. It doesn’t matter what it holds true for most people. It’s the exception to you that you feel should be the rule. No, not everybody can escape the ghetto. Not everybody can be rich. Not everybody can be famous. Not everybody can be athletically gifted. The fact of the matter is though if you work hard at it and you follow proven methods of training and learning, you can’t be rich. You can get famous and you can in many cases, be athletically gifted. Maybe not professional athlete level but still gifted.

@f8ta1ity54

I forgot to answer your question as to why the Irish and the Italians escape the ghetto. Because they worked their fucking asses off instead of holding their hands out.

I want success stories to be the norm. you're telling me if I dont talk about why the majority of people that dont make out, it will somehow just go away?

Yea. Ok. We are talking about little kids who don't know any better. Millions of kids that have no idea why their family has been relegated to ghettos for generations. They don't know why they are perceived as violent and angry criminals from birth. You're saying just don't talk about it and those kids will be fine.

As for the success of the Italians and Irish to get out of the ghettos, thats because they were considered part of whiteness over time. Black people have not. Irish and Italian ghetto culture was pretty bad at one time too. The only difference is that they aren't black.

 

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5 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

So black people are more likely to: be pulled over, be killled by police, serve longer prison sentences, come from poor schools, have worse healthcare outcomes, etc. 

All because I want it to be that way? So you are telling me, that if I NEVER mention these things, they will suddenly disappear? Wtf are you smoking?

History serves no purpose.? Is there nothing to learn from history?

How are students from underfunded schools just going to turn into rocket scientists without the resources they need?

You can set goals all you want but that doesn't mean shit. How is the 8 year old with no calculator, textbook, or internet, his mom is a crack head and dad is jail, who gets one meal a day from school going to reach his goal of being a math teacher? He just going to do it himself?

sure, anyone can win the lottery too. Does winning the lottery prove everyone should buy lottery tickets every day?

lol so your past has had no affect on your present, and will have none on your future?

Nope. I never said that.

You may have never said that but that’s what they expect out of reparations. They want free money and lots of it. You never hear the black community talking about other forms of reparations.

my past has everything to do with my present in that I’ve learned lessons, and used those lessons to be successful. Not what we see out of the people I’m talking about. The difference? I have desire to succeed.

any eight-year-old whose home life is with a crackhead mother and a father in jail and only gets one meal a day is slipping through the cracks. That is the instance where social services should be stepping in and either working to change the situation or remove the child 

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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4 hours ago, ICRockets2 said:

God you are a stupid racist piece of shit.  Fuck you and kill yourself.  Your daughters will thank you.

Glad we can continue this levelheaded conversation.

maybe I should run away and force the Admins to remove my user name so that I can never come back again because you told me to kill myself

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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2 minutes ago, HipKat said:

 

any eight-year-old whose home life is with a crackhead mother and a father in jail and only gets one meal a day is slipping through the cracks. That is the instance where social services should be stepping in and either working to change the situation or remove the child 

Wow look at you trying to make the exception the rule

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1 minute ago, HipKat said:

Glad we can continue this levelheaded conversation.

maybe I should run away and force the Admins to remove my user name so that I can never come back again because you told me to kill myself

What the fuck are you talking about?  The Admins had nothing to do with the mechanisms behind how I left.

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3 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

I want success stories to be the norm. you're telling me if I dont talk about why the majority of people that dont make out, it will somehow just go away?

Yea. Ok. We are talking about little kids who don't know any better. Millions of kids that have no idea why their family has been relegated to ghettos for generations. They don't know why they are perceived as violent and angry criminals from birth. You're saying just don't talk about it and those kids will be fine.

As for the success of the Italians and Irish to get out of the ghettos, thats because they were considered part of whiteness over time. Black people have not. Irish and Italian ghetto culture was pretty bad at one time too. The only difference is that they aren't black.

 

No, we should be talking about why they don’t want to make it out. They may talk a good game, but they don’t want to make it out. They don’t want to be responsible for earning a paycheck, and giving up the social welfare net that they have become a custom to supporting all of their needs.

 Utilities? Paid for. They don’t want to be responsible to the point that they have to earn a living to cover all those expenses when it’s being done for them.and why would they? They get free food. They get free money. If they have another child? It’s a pay raise. More free food. More free money. When they can’t afford housing they get free housing. Cable Internet for five dollars a month because they have kids in school. Thank God for that program, actually. Utilities? Paid for. They don’t want to be responsible to the point that they have to earn a living to cover all those expenses when it’s being done for them.  
 

I mean you may as well be asking why do they not fear going to jail.

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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6 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

Wow look at you trying to make the exception the rule

Well according to F8t, that’s not the exception. That is the rule

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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6 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

What the fuck are you talking about?  The Admins had nothing to do with the mechanisms behind how I left.

Maybe you’re replying to the wrong person here?

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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8 hours ago, HipKat said:

The fact of the matter is though if you work hard at it and you follow proven methods of training and learning, you can’t be rich. You can get famous and you can in many cases, be athletically gifted. Maybe not professional athlete level but still gifted.

So to be clear, your argument here is "they clearly don't want to succeed because if they did they'd dedicate their time and energy into not getting paid to play sports"?

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39 minutes ago, ICRockets2 said:

So to be clear, your argument here is "they clearly don't want to succeed because if they did they'd dedicate their time and energy into not getting paid to play sports"?

Awww, that's so cute!! I see what you did there.

“There he goes. One of God's own prototypes.

A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

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51 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Awww, that's so cute!! I see what you did there.

What?  You know I'm assuming the "can't" was a typo and you meant can, right?  That's not factoring into my assessment of your statement whatsoever.  The statement I am replying to, if we tighten it up a bit, is:

 

1 hour ago, ICRockets2 said:

if you work hard at it and you follow proven methods of training and learning, you can in many cases be athletically gifted. Maybe not professional athlete level but still gifted.

All I've done is cut out a portion in the middle (if you feel we need to we can go back and address the parts I cut out after this) to take a microscope to this part.  That part can be paraphrased as the thing I said above, can it not?

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15 hours ago, HipKat said:

 

it’s like one of my favorite movies, the Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia. Who ironically, the last guy I train is from Boone county West Virginia and this family are his cousins. Which is not surprising if you knew him.

The white family, Boone county West Virginia coal mining country, have a reputation of taking advantage of the disability and welfare system. They don’t work. The criminals. Throughout generations they’ve been guilty of murder, extortion, burglary, drug dealing, etc.

their reputation is so bad that in that region, if your name is white, you’re not going to get a job because business owners just assume you’re going to steal from them.

And that’s how it is in the black community

 

12 hours ago, HipKat said:

Like I’ve posted on here before. A man I know who is black and lives in the hood wants told me that white people need to change their perception of the black community and I said no Black people need to change the white man’s perception of the black community.

I just can't imagine typing these things and not realizing how racist they are.  It's completely irrational.  

I truly don't get it.  You've DEMONSTRATED the ability to use a rational thought process when it comes to politics.  But when it comes to certain topics- ones that seem to predominantly involve minorities- you shut that process off and just come up with these SUPER uncharitable caricatures of entire demographics!  



 

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5 hours ago, HipKat said:

 

any eight-year-old whose home life is with a crackhead mother and a father in jail and only gets one meal a day is slipping through the cracks. That is the instance where social services should be stepping in and either working to change the situation or remove the child 

So this kid enters the foster system.  I'd point out how fucked up the foster system is, but I assume you'd just tell me it's a kid's fault if he's placed with abusive foster parents, or you'd say "no that really sucks and I'm sorry that happened to them, but the second they turn 18 they better immediately become the most motivated and optimistic ray of sunshine I've ever met or I'll assume he LIKES having a shitty life."

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It's extremely funny to me that you want to act like you're not HORRIFICALLY wrong on these topics when you can't even be bothered to maintain internal consistency with your bigotry. 

On the one hand, you treat the very concept of queer and trans youth as an apocalyptic threat to the stability of our culture.  If your darling baby child learns that some girls have penises, her world is irreparably shattered.  Her life is ruined.  All if takes is one tiny chink in the armor and she falls apart.  

But then when black people deal with CENTURIES of oppression, you believe you get to call them niggers if they don't brush it off and power through adversity no matter what.  

This is beyond asinine.  You cannot believe one small exposure to wokeness is ruinous enough to a child's life to justify a full scale assault on public education and also think that people who grow up in poverty are worthy of the greatest disrespect you can show another human being if they do not demonstrate the requisite fighting spirit.

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