Do you believe in an afterlife?

[shiva2999]

10 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

 

That's your own belief. I'm not in the business of inculcating people and will explain my beliefs if they are challenged. You're on your own with this one, God speed.

Except it's not a "belief". Its my experience.

Your logic is self serving.

Just because some things are, as of now, unexplained doesn't mean we get to attribute them to God or the gods,

That's Dark Ages "reasoning".

[shiva2999]

We should also note that there are now, and have been for millenia, human beings who believe  in the name of religion all sorts of different nonsense using the exact same rationales and excuses for believing in the unverifiable.

Except only one rationale can possibly be correct or none can be correct, but two or more cannot.

Why is Christianity logically supportable while all other religions are deluded?

 

[SackMan518]

9 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Except it's not a "belief". Its my experience.

Your experience is incomplete.

10 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Your logic is self serving.

How? What benefit do I receive whether you believe or not?

12 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Just because some things are, as of now, unexplained doesn't mean we get to attribute them to God or the gods,

I would agree with that if we're talking about idolatry.

12 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

That's Dark Ages "reasoning".

Not necessarily, we have medical treatments now that will be seen in the future as barbarism so we're never totally free of ignorant thought however religion has lasted thousands of years so there must be something to it.

4 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Why is Christianity logically supportable while all other religions are deluded?

You didn't hear that from me. I have a great respect for Eastern religions and believe that God calls down his prophets for service all over the world throughout different eras and cultures. Just because I believe in Jesus doesn't mean that I can't have admiration for various priests, mystics, sufis, etc.

[thinwhiteduke]

10 hours ago, HipKat said:

In God We Trust is on all our money. Do you not spend money because it says God on it?

Which god is govt referring to? It also has a pyramid with an Eye.

Pretty creepy. 

[thinwhiteduke]

6 hours ago, HipKat said:

If I was worried about getting so much money, I would be like moment or silly and brag about all the money I have. All I’ve ever been interested in is having enough to pay my bills, buy the things I need when I need them and save a little where I can.

 Not much of a god if you spend your life just getting by.

Men who.have all the money and power, wrote the bible. They said for you to stay poor.

 

 

[shiva2999]

9 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

Your experience is incomplete.

How? What benefit do I receive whether you believe or not?

I would agree with that if we're talking about idolatry.

Not necessarily, we have medical treatments now that will be seen in the future as barbarism so we're never totally free of ignorant thought however religion has lasted thousands of years so there must be something to it.

You didn't hear that from me. I have a great respect for Eastern religions and believe that God calls down his prophets for service all over the world throughout different eras and cultures. Just because I believe in Jesus doesn't mean that I can't have admiration for various priests, mystics, sufis, etc.

1. Our experience is always incomplete. So what? Because I'm not all knowing then someone else has to be? Don't be ridiculous.

2. Makes you feel better about yourself, which is your real goal. Self-admiration.

3. One man's God is another man's idol.

4. Huh? Because we, as fallible human beings, make mistakes, therefore God must be real?

5. So, all religions and metaphysical beliefs are true because the one true God creates it all for reasons we can't expect to understand or appreciate?

[LiterateStylish]

6 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

So your argument is that because some 2000 year old cultists said they saw Jesus perform miracles

If it was just “cultists”, you’d have a point.

But it’s not.

Rabbi’s who did not like Jesus also wrote of him. They called him a a "sorcerer", likely because they couldn't figure out how he was doing his miracles.

6 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

(even though the new testament was written 70 years after Jesus died)

30-40 years actually. At least the start of it.

6 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

There are spiritual texts that are thousands of years older than the bible.

Yeah it’s called the Old Testament. Also part of the Bible lol.

 

[SackMan518]

2 hours ago, shiva2999 said:

1. Our experience is always incomplete. So what? Because I'm not all knowing then someone else has to be? Don't be ridiculous.

No, the point is that you're overweighing your one sole collection of experience in life versus billions of people over thousands of years of human history.

2 hours ago, shiva2999 said:

2. Makes you feel better about yourself, which is your real goal. Self-admiration.

Self admiration and ego is of the devil and only deludes yourself into a suffering existence and fallacies about existence. My real goal is to feel peace in my life and let the stresses of the world be uneffective towards my mind.

2 hours ago, shiva2999 said:

3. One man's God is another man's idol.

The difference is that man makes idols and idols do not make man. An idol is quite different from the true God.

2 hours ago, shiva2999 said:

4. Huh? Because we, as fallible human beings, make mistakes, therefore God must be real?

Not exactly... you guys claim that there is no scientific measures or proofs of an intelligent creator and I'm telling you that science and man has been very wrong before and you have to leave the possibility open that Atheists are wrong again.

2 hours ago, shiva2999 said:

5. So, all religions and metaphysical beliefs are true because the one true God creates it all for reasons we can't expect to understand or appreciate?

Somewhat, religious systems are divine inspiration interpreted by man which means that none of them are infallible in essence but they all have worth in that they encourage man to seek connection with the transcendental Lord.

Like I said, I'm not here to convince you of anything but I will gladly explain my beliefs as long as it remains respectful.

[shiva2999]

24 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

No, the point is that you're overweighing your one sole collection of experience in life versus billions of people over thousands of years of human history.

Self admiration and ego is of the devil and only deludes yourself into a suffering existence and fallacies about existence. My real goal is to feel peace in my life and let the stresses of the world be uneffective towards my mind.

The difference is that man makes idols and idols do not make man. An idol is quite different from the true God.

Not exactly... you guys claim that there is no scientific measures or proofs of an intelligent creator and I'm telling you that science and man has been very wrong before and you have to leave the possibility open that Atheists are wrong again.

Somewhat, religious systems are divine inspiration interpreted by man which means that none of them are infallible in essence but they all have worth in that they encourage man to seek connection with the transcendental Lord.

Like I said, I'm not here to convince you of anything but I will gladly explain my beliefs as long as it remains respectful.

1. And I'm the most recent product of millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of searching for knowledge, whereas those of us that believe in God or gods believe stuff pushed by religious charlatans for thousands of years.

2. Finding peace in my life and mind isn't my goal. My goal is enlightenment, which has never been a necessary component of belief.

3  I agree that man makes idols. That doesn't mean God made man.

4. By this reasoning, we have as much reason to believe in God as we do to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

5. Or not. Your conclusions are just opinion.

6. Have I been disrespectful? If so, how? If not, why suggest the possibility?

[Herodotus]

On 7/13/2022 at 8:48 AM, shiva2999 said:

You would think so.

My personal opinion as an atheist from the age of 10 is that all things being equal, God loves righteous unbelievers best.

They are the proof of a loving father.

1. the lost sheep, the pearl of great price, the woman caught in the act of adultery, Mary Magdalene, the Roman centurion, its the righteous unbeliever.  He did not like the pharisees and saducees who knew the answer.

[shiva2999]

2 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

1. the lost sheep, the pearl of great price, the woman caught in the act of adultery, Mary Magdalene, the Roman centurion, its the righteous unbeliever.  He did not like the pharisees and saducees who knew the answer.

The Prodigal Son

[SackMan518]

10 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

1. And I'm the most recent product of millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of searching for knowledge, whereas those of us that believe in God or gods believe stuff pushed by religious charlatans for thousands of years.

2. Finding peace in my life and mind isn't my goal. My goal is enlightenment, which has never been a necessary component of belief.

3  I agree that man makes idols. That doesn't mean God made man.

4. By this reasoning, we have as much reason to believe in God as we do to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

5. Or not. Your conclusions are just opinion.

6. Have I been disrespectful? If so, how? If not, why suggest the possibility?

I've said all I can say on it. I'm a believer, you aren't, neither of us will change our minds. My wish for you is only that you live a good life where maybe you might open the door a little bit on it. No, I didn't think you were disrespectful but I was just throwing a caveat up there for when I would withdraw from the debate but that never occurred. Our reasoning on the divine may be diametrically opposed but we have more common ground on societal norms than we may think.

[shiva2999]

2 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

I've said all I can say on it. I'm a believer, you aren't, neither of us will change our minds. My wish for you is only that you live a good life where maybe you might open the door a little bit on it. No, I didn't think you were disrespectful but I was just throwing a caveat up there for when I would withdraw from the debate but that never occurred. Our reasoning on the divine may be diametrically opposed but we have more common ground on societal norms than we may think.

A couple of observations after two decades of discussion with Christians.

I have the utmost respect for Jesus of Nazareth. A great, kind and brave man, a credit to humanity.

Paul of Tarses, if not literally Satan, was a tool of the Devil (metaphorically, of course ).

[SackMan518]

2 minutes ago, shiva2999 said:

Paul of Tarses, if not literally Satan, was a tool of the Devil (metaphorically, of course ).

One of my long standing friends who is non-denominational but a believer says the same thing. He's all about the Old Testament and hates Paul. We were talking about it on the phone some time ago and he said something like, "And then this guy Paul comes along, changes his mind, and suddenly starts telling everybody what they should believe. Who the fuck is this asshole?" Between the two of us if you heard us talking about anything other than religion you'd never guess that we were believers. LOL.

[HipKat]

1 hour ago, shiva2999 said:

1. And I'm the most recent product of millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of searching for knowledge, whereas those of us that believe in God or gods believe stuff pushed by religious charlatans for thousands of years.

 

Your old as dirt, far from the most recent product

[thinwhiteduke]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:44 AM, Woody said:

Both are misguided. That was the point of the elite to accomplish

[SackMan518]

"It was He who created Man in the beginning, and He left him in the power of his own free choice. If you choose, you can keep the commandments; and to act faithfully is a matter of your own choice. He has placed before you fire and water; stretch out your hand for whichever you choose. Before each person are life and death, and whichever one chooses will be given. For great is the wisdom of the Lord; He is mighty in power and sees everything; His eyes are on those who fear Him, and He knows every human action. He has not commanded anyone to be wicked, and He has not given anyone permission to sin.'' (Sirach 15:11-20)