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SackMan518

Are electric cars better for the environment? Not a chance.

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The end of the video tells you the better option and it's not gasoline or diesel.

Are electric cars worse for the environment?
Crunch the numbers, and it looks like all those subsidies might be counterproductive

 

If you believe the headlines, traditional automobiles are speeding toward a dead end. All those V8s, V6s and turbocharged vehicles we’ve grown to love will soon be replaced by squadrons of clean, whisper-quiet, all-electric vehicles. And if you believe the headlines, the environment will be much better off.

Policymakers at every level have done their part to push electric vehicles by creating a tankful of subsidies. Thanks to laws signed by both George W. Bush and Barack Obama, electric-vehicle buyers can feast on federal tax credits of up to $7,500 that reduce the initial purchase cost of their vehicles. Not to be outdone, many states also dangle their own mix of goodies for electric vehicle buyers, including purchase rebates as large as $5,000, additional rebates for vehicle chargers, and free use of public charging stations—which, of course, are only “free” because they’re subsidized by ratepayers and taxpayers. Some states even give electric vehicles preferential access to carpool lanes.

Then there are the electric vehicle mandates. In January, California Gov. Jerry Brown decreed that 5 million electric vehicles must be on his state’s roads by 2025, along with 250,000 charging stations. Eight other states are following California’s lead. One California lawmaker has even introduced legislation to ban all internal combustion vehicles by 2040.

All of this might make sense if electric vehicles, as their supporters claim, were truly likely to reduce air pollution and tackle climate change. But are they?

To answer that question, I used the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s most recent long-term forecasts for the number of new electric vehicles through 2050, estimated how much electricity they’d use, and then figured out how much pollution that electricity would generate, looking at three key pollutants regulated under the U.S. Clean Air Act—sulfur dioxide (SO2), oxides of nitrogen (NOX), and particulates—as well as CO2 emissions. I compared them to the emissions of new gasoline-powered vehicles, using the EIA’s “real world” miles-per-gallon forecast, rather than the higher CAFE standard values.

What I found is that widespread adoption of electric vehicles nationwide will likely increase air pollution compared with new internal combustion vehicles. You read that right: more electric cars and trucks will mean more pollution.

That might sound counterintuitive: After all, won’t replacing a 30-year old, smoke-belching Oldsmobile with a new electric vehicle reduce air pollution? Yes, of course. But that’s also where many electric vehicle proponents’ arguments run off the road: they fail to consider just how clean and efficient new internal combustion vehicles are. The appropriate comparison for evaluating the benefits of all those electric vehicle subsidies and mandates isn’t the difference between an electric vehicle and an old gas-guzzler; it’s the difference between an electric car and a new gas car. And new internal combustion engines are really clean. Today’s vehicles emit only about 1% of the pollution than they did in the 1960s, and new innovations continue to improve those engines’ efficiency and cleanliness.

And as for that electric car: The energy doesn’t come from nowhere. Cars are charged from the nation’s electrical grid, which means that they’re only as “clean” as America’s mix of power sources. Those are getting cleaner, but we still generate power mainly by burning fossil fuels: natural gas is our biggest source of electricity, and is projected to increase. And coal, while still declining, will remain the second largest source of electricity for some time. (Third is nuclear power, which doesn’t generate emissions but has other byproducts that worry some environmentalists.) Even with large increases in wind and solar generation, the EIA projects that the nation’s electric generating mix will be just 30% renewable by 2030. Based on that forecast, if the EIA’s projected number of electric vehicles were replaced with new internal combustion vehicles, air pollution would actually decrease—and this holds true even if you include the emissions from oil refineries that manufacture gasoline.

As for states like California with stringent mandates to use more renewable energy for their power grid, they also have the highest electric rates in the continental US, 50% higher than the US average. And electric rates in those states just keep increasing. So it’s a cleaner power mix, but makes recharging your car more expensive. The higher the electric rate, the lower the incentive for a new car buyer to purchase an electric vehicle.

As for greenhouse-gas emissions, my analysis shows that electric vehicles will reduce them compared to new internal combustion vehicles. But based on the EIA’s projection of the number of new electric vehicles, the net reduction in CO2 emissions between 2018 and 2050 would be only about one-half of one percent of total forecast U.S. energy-related carbon emissions. Such a small change will have no impact whatsoever on climate, and thus have no economic benefit.

So, if electric-vehicle subsidies don’t help the environment, what—or who—do they help? Most electric-vehicle buyers are far wealthier than average Americans. A nationwide survey in 2017 found that 56% had household incomes of at least $100,000 and 17% had household incomes of at least $200,000. (In 2016, median household income for the US as a whole was less than $58,000.) So it’s fair to say the subsidies disproportionately benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor, who cannot afford to buy even subsidized electric vehicles or live in their own homes to take advantage of residential chargers or solar panels.

Not only that, the wires and charging stations needed to charge all those electric vehicles will be paid for by all ratepayers, further raising electric rates. And as more wealthy customers install solar panels to charge their electric vehicles, the costs to provide them back-up power will fall on those who cannot afford to do so.

In effect, the wealthy owners of electric vehicles will enjoy the benefits of their clean, silent cars, while passing on many of the costs of keeping their vehicles on the road to everyone else, especially the poor.

To be sure, electric cars are impressive. Some are quicker off the line than a Formula 1 race car. But there is no economic or environmental justification for the many billions of dollars in subsidies that America is already paying to speed their adoption.

So what to do? First, Congress should immediately terminate those electric-vehicle tax credits, which just benefit the wealthy. Congress should also eliminate zero-emissions credits, which electric-vehicle manufacturers have used to boost their bottom line – $860 million for Tesla alone in the last three years. And third, states should eliminate their various subsidies for electric vehicles and charging infrastructure, which are also paid for disproportionately by the poor and are contributing to rising electric rates.

Electric vehicle subsidies and mandates share an unfortunate, and all too common trait with other government policies: They’re based on “conventional wisdom” that turns out to be wrong. Wealthy consumers who have purchased Teslas and Chevy Bolts primarily to signal their green bona fides for their friends and neighbors, and who have socialized many of the costs of their purchases to those who are less well-off, might wish to take a closer look at the numbers. Their hands may not be quite so clean as they believe.

 


Sack "The Buffalo Range's TRUSTED News Source!"

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresden James

Parler @NYexile

 

 

 

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It's a scam that is geared toward enriching China and making America dependent on them for batteries and the raw materials that are used to make them.  China accounts for 80% of the world's output of raw materials used in batteries.  :niterider:

 

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2 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

By building the infrastructure for EVs it will allow us to switch to a more efficient energy source more easily. It's easier to change the source of the power than it is to switch all the vehicles over. 

Luckily, EV batteries are recyclable. 

It is also more cost efficient amd environmentally friendly to transport electricity than gas.

Wrong again Commie Boy!

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Sack "The Buffalo Range's TRUSTED News Source!"

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresden James

Parler @NYexile

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

By building the infrastructure for EVs it will allow us to switch to a more efficient energy source more easily. It's easier to change the source of the power than it is to switch all the vehicles over. 

Luckily, EV batteries are recyclable. 

It is also more cost efficient amd environmentally friendly to transport electricity than gas.

Why does this guy always post as if he has knowledge on subjects when it's clear as day he has little to none of such a thing?

Truly pathetic 

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16 minutes ago, Philly'sFinest said:

Why does this guy always post as if he has knowledge on subjects when it's clear as day he has little to none of such a thing?

Truly pathetic 

Why does this guy follow me around, from thread to thread, unironically doing the exact same thing he accuses me of?

He continues to get owned but keeps coming back for more.

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1 hour ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Why does this guy follow me around, from thread to thread, unironically doing the exact same thing he accuses me of?

He continues to get owned but keeps coming back for more.

We have yet to see you own a single person here. 

:sad trombone:

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Sack "The Buffalo Range's TRUSTED News Source!"

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresden James

Parler @NYexile

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Why does this guy follow me around, from thread to thread, unironically doing the exact same thing he accuses me of?

He continues to get owned but keeps coming back for more.

Spreading more misinformation, I see.

Just another day in the life of a total loser, I suppose. 

You never have, and never will get a win here because you are always wrong being a commie, socialist, bigot that is complete clueless.

Laterz

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8 hours ago, SackMan518 said:

We have yet to see you own a single person here. 

:sad trombone:

Lol 

Let's see off the top of my head I've owned you on:

1. Lack of evidence of voter fraud and misinformation various times

2. Various COVID misinformation 

3. Debunking "the nazis were socialists"

4. Debunking "the southern strategy wasn't real" and "the parties never switched ideologies"

5. Debunking CRT misinformation 

6. Debunking "Systemic racism isn't real"

7. Debunking Climate change denial and misinformation 

8. Debunking "antifa is a well organized terrorist group"

9. That corporate democrats are "the far left anti-capitalists"

10. You didn't understand how proportions work in a COVID study

There is so much more I'm forgetting, and there will be more in the future without a doubt. Sure, you'll obviously never admit defeat because you are TFG, and probably have been for decades. That's what years and years of disinformation and fear mongering will do to a person. You have a degenerative case of brain worms. Hey, maybe some ivermectin could be of use to you after all! 

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3 hours ago, Philly'sFinest said:

Spreading more misinformation, I see.

Just another day in the life of a total loser, I suppose. 

You never have, and never will get a win here because you are always wrong being a commie, socialist, bigot that is complete clueless.

Laterz

Ah, I love that logic train. "You can't ever be right because Ur A sOcIaLiSt". Such a well crafted and thought out argument! 

How am I a bigot exactly? This should be a good one!

 


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1 hour ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Ah, I love that logic train. "You can't ever be right because Ur A sOcIaLiSt". Such a well crafted and thought out argument! 

How am I a bigot exactly? This should be a good one!

I'm sure you're right sometimes...just not in this forum.

Do you read what you post? It's plain as day that you have a hatred or dislike for white conservatives. I believe it's because you're a bigot.

And I don't care what race you are. There are whites that are anti white.

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Ah, the electric vehicle. 

If it was truly superior, it would be the industry standard. 

The range of an electric vehicle is on average 300 miles, a Tesla is 408 miles maximum.   That is not enough for standard use or long trips.  For many urban people, this range will work and, with the subsidies, also will work economically for them.  To them, I say you're welcome.   They can wash my Camaro as payment. 

The design of a unitary battery is the true reason for the range problems.  

Vehicles should be fed by a string of batteries.  The batteries at each end should be readily accessible and 'swappable'.  Electric infrastructure would have to include personnel to swap batteries as well as charging stations.  Hotels would have to be fitted with charging stations; and not just the front row next to the reserved spaces.   You'd have to consider the proper abandonment of gas tanks and maintaining the petroleum  infrastructure to support trucking.   This is a little harder than your average 'Salon' or 'NY Times' article would indicate.  A slight mismatch in downsizing the available Abiotic Geologic Fuels infrastructure  and you'd have skyrocketing costs for delivered goods.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Philly'sFinest said:

I'm sure you're right sometimes...just not in this forum.

Do you read what you post? It's plain as day that you have a hatred or dislike for white conservatives. I believe it's because you're a bigot.

And I don't care what race you are. There are whites that are anti white.

Lol great comeback.

I have a dislike for conservatism. I dont care what color you are. Conservatism within the republican party is based on traditionalism for traditions sake. Usually for racists, that means to want to preserve the racial power divide in this country. Particularly in the south. For Christians, that means living under Christian values and nothing else. They want all to live under their version of the sky man or society will crumble.

Conservatives also have delusions of a meritocracy and earning everything. Which in an advanced society, it's strange that everything humans need to survive- food, shelter, healthcare- are not provided to everyone. For some reason they believe everything should be behind a paywall that only the wealthiest can afford. 

Conservatism is a fear of the "other". Because some arbitrary lines were drawn, certain people are given no rights and treated like animals. Just because they lost the birth lottery.

So sure, call me a bigot. I'm intolerant of the intolerant. I'm a bigot of bigots. But at least my bigotry has some utility in society.


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4 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Lol great comeback.

I have a dislike for conservatism. I dont care what color you are. Conservatism within the republican party is based on traditionalism for traditions sake. Usually for racists, that means to want to preserve the racial power divide in this country. Particularly in the south. For Christians, that means living under Christian values and nothing else. They want all to live under their version of the sky man or society will crumble.

Conservatives also have delusions of a meritocracy and earning everything. Which in an advanced society, it's strange that everything humans need to survive- food, shelter, healthcare- are not provided to everyone. For some reason they believe everything should be behind a paywall that only the wealthiest can afford. 

Conservatism is a fear of the "other". Because some arbitrary lines were drawn, certain people are given no rights and treated like animals. Just because they lost the birth lottery.

So sure, call me a bigot. I'm intolerant of the intolerant. I'm a bigot of bigots. But at least my bigotry has some utility in society.

Facts are that democrats do everything and more to cause hate and division than anyone else. They are currently defending pedos and other criminals to further a racial divide.

But, sure...believe whatever you want. We know awful takes and completely ignorant opinions are your thing, anyway. 

 

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8 hours ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Let's see off the top of my head I've owned you on:

1. Lack of evidence of voter fraud and misinformation various times

2. Various COVID misinformation 

3. Debunking "the nazis were socialists"

4. Debunking "the southern strategy wasn't real" and "the parties never switched ideologies"

5. Debunking CRT misinformation 

6. Debunking "Systemic racism isn't real"

7. Debunking Climate change denial and misinformation 

8. Debunking "antifa is a well organized terrorist group"

9. That corporate democrats are "the far left anti-capitalists"

10. You didn't understand how proportions work in a COVID study

Do you live on Planet Stupid? You've owned me on exactly zero of those things on the list.

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Sack "The Buffalo Range's TRUSTED News Source!"

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresden James

Parler @NYexile

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Philly'sFinest said:

Facts are that democrats do everything and more to cause hate and division than anyone else. They are currently defending pedos and other criminals to further a racial divide.

But, sure...believe whatever you want. We know awful takes and completely ignorant opinions are your thing, anyway. 

Perfect deflection! I'll take that as a concession.

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Just now, SackMan518 said:

Do you live on Planet Stupid? You've owned me on exactly zero of those things on the list.

Hahaha 

Truly delusional. 

Nothing changes.

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1 minute ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Hahaha 

Truly delusional. 

Nothing changes.

Sure thing dude... you haven't been right about jack. Hey, do you still have a copy of that Russian Pee-Pee tape handy?

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Sack "The Buffalo Range's TRUSTED News Source!"

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresden James

Parler @NYexile

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, SackMan518 said:

Sure thing dude... you haven't been right about jack. Hey, do you still have a copy of that Russian Pee-Pee tape handy?

Notice how that wasn't on the list? Because I never said there was one. Is there one? We may never know. But unlike MAGATs I won't say there is one because some guy on Twitter says there is.

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You guys are kidding yourselves. The internal combustion engine is having it's last hurrah for terrestrial transportation. If you think this is just a fad and gasoline will live through it and suggest car manufacturers ride out the storm then they will suffer the fate of a Kodak ignoring the digital photography revolution.

https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/Global-LCA-passenger-cars-jul2021_0.pdf

Lifetime greenhouse emissions are much lower for for electric vehicles than internal combustion vehicles. Forget about maintenance costs.

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On 11/21/2021 at 3:45 PM, f8ta1ity54 said:

By building the infrastructure for EVs it will allow us to switch to a more efficient energy source more easily. It's easier to change the source of the power than it is to switch all the vehicles over. 

Luckily, EV batteries are recyclable. 

It is also more cost efficient amd environmentally friendly to transport electricity than gas.

The other benefit is centralizing the emissions.  By moving tailpipe emissions to the source of the electrical production, you dramatically improve air quality in high density areas or areas that have historical smog issues (Mountain areas with inversions, etc).

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