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SackMan518

AJ Klein vs. Tremaine Edmunds

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Call me crazy, call me controversial but being at the game yesterday and watching the defense play I actually think the Klein/Milano LB duo is better than our standard Edmunds/Milano setup. Klein seems to be more fluid, instinctual, and in better control of the defense when he's out there than Edmunds in the same Mike LB role. PFF has both players rated about the same (50.4 vs 50.6) but the defense as a whole seems to operate better with Klein in there regardless of their personal stats.

What do you guys think?


Sack "The Buffalo Range's TRUSTED News Source!"

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresden James

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Edmunds still has room to grow, Klein has a few vet years on him in  that regard.  Edmunds is more athletic, I'd like to them mix it up and have Edmunds use more of his athleticism against players like Travis Kelce te from the chiefs...klein is more instinctive at the moment.

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not controversial and not crazy.  His instincts are astronomically better and more than make up for the talent discrepancy.  Talent with no instincts or brains means nothing.   Edmunds constantly makes the wrong read and gets caught up in the wash.    Usually when we allow one of those huge gaping runs it's because Edmunds is lost.  If Klein had Edmunds talent, he'd be a monster.

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Sin is nothing to celebrate, have pride in, or hold parades for. The rainbow is a symbol of promise not a symbol of depravity.

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After yesterday, I don't see the Bills paying Edmunds, I think they'll let him walk and draft a replacement

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1 hour ago, Baldat28 said:

After yesterday, I don't see the Bills paying Edmunds, I think they'll let him walk and draft a replacement

lol

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here an article from the athletic (i know you cheap fux dont subscribe) discussing the topic

 

 

Why can’t Tremaine Edmunds win over Bills fans when he’s viewed as a special player outside of Buffalo?

CHICAGO, IL - AUGUST 21: Buffalo Bills middle linebacker Tremaine Edmunds (49) looks on during a preseason game between the Chicago Bears and the Buffalo Bills on August 21, 2021 at Soldier Field in Chicago, IL. (Photo by Robin Alam/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)
By Joe Buscaglia Oct 8, 2021comment-icon@2x.png 119 save-icon@2x.png

When Tremaine Edmunds’ name comes up in conversations among Bills observers, there’s usually a theme to it.

Most comments range from “Yeah, he’s all right” to “The Bills can do better.”

Somehow, in the deep sea of online football takes, Edmunds manages to receive national acclaim, but in his backyard in Buffalo, he remains a constant target of criticism.

He’s the middle linebacker and a former first-round pick, making him a focal point to many. He’s only 23 and younger than half of the Bills’ 2021 draft class but old in time on task with three-plus years of starting experience.

Edmunds is also one of the most noticeable players on the field at 6-foot-5 and 250 pounds. There aren’t many linebackers built like him. Plus, Bills fans could have “potential fatigue,” having heard of his upside for several years without seeing the commensurate flashy jump expected of young players.

All of those factors might be part of it. But with the position Edmunds plays, it sometimes seems like he can never do enough. He’s a player many are quick to blame when things go awry.

When he doesn’t escape a block against the run, some will exclaim he should have done more — even if his role was to free up a teammate to make a tackle. If he bats down a pass in coverage, some will say, “Well, he should have picked that off.” And if he does come away with an interception, he might hear, “He needs to do that more often.”

But in league circles, his reputation is golden.

AP21276649395347.jpg
 
Tremaine Edmunds tackles Texans wide receiver Brandin Cooks. (Adrian Kraus / Associated Press)

Edmunds has earned two Pro Bowl selections in his three NFL seasons. He was named the AFC defensive player of the week in Week 4. Instead of celebrating those accolades, some Bills fans call Edmunds overrated. After all, in a summer survey of Bills fans, Edmunds was the No. 2 choice as the team’s most overrated player, getting 22.8 percent of the vote. He was only three votes shy of finishing first.

In a sense, he’s underrated and perhaps misunderstood by some of those who watch him frequently. But why?

How can a player be almost universally praised nationally and panned locally at the same time? Usually, the opposite is true. It makes for quite the juxtaposition.

Those who know Edmunds best are perplexed. Defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier let out a deep — but friendly — sigh before trying to answer the question.

“I’ve tried to pinpoint that myself because when I talk to all my colleagues around the league, they rave about him. And then here, I know sometimes people wonder,” Frazier said. “Down in our locker room, out on the field and in our management … everybody knows his value and how important he is to us. But for some reason — I don’t know. I don’t know quite why.”

Bills general manager Brandon Beane gets fired up about it as well.

“When you draft someone in the first round, and we traded up to get him, people probably have in their minds what they’re going to see,” Beane said. “Unfortunately, people can be very hard. Part of that is the social media world we live in, whether it’s somebody posting video of a play they think he should’ve made — maybe he’ll tell you he should’ve made it — and now it’s scrolling through Twitter.”

Beane explained that because of Edmunds’ athletic attributes, the Bills ask him to do some things most middle linebackers don’t have to do, such as picking up a slot receiver in zone coverage.

“It’s a young player still learning,” Beane said. “Middle linebacker is not the easiest. You’re playing quarterback for the defense, and you’ve got to go out there and make plays.”

Beane even likened the disparity in opinions on Edmunds to the linebacker’s high-profile classmate of the 2018 NFL Draft, quarterback Josh Allen.

“I go back to Josh’s rookie year,” Beane said. “There’d be games he’d play and he would do a lot of really good things, but that wasn’t what was talked about. We lost the game and they’re showing a gaffe that he made. Now it’s trending on social media and people are bashing Josh Allen. I’m like, ‘If these people only watched the game, they wouldn’t say what they’re saying.’ I think sometimes that happens to Tremaine. You want everything for him. You’ve got to let him grow. He’ll be the first to tell you he’s left plays out there that he wants to make, but the thing I love about Tremaine, similar to Josh, he’s his own worst critic. He wants it bad.”

Former Bills linebacker Lorenzo Alexander, who was Edmunds’ teammate, shared his theory about the young linebacker’s local critics.

“The people that are around you the most want more out of you,” Alexander said. “People get spoiled sometimes, especially now if you think about the last four years what the organization has been able to do. You want more, right? And you’re so thirsty for that Super Bowl. You’re right there. You want everybody to kind of super-develop and kind of skip over a couple of steps and then become everything that they said they would be, and not really realize still how young he is. I think that’s probably what plays into that. That’s just human nature, right? You always want more out of what you have and not really realize how well you’ve got it.

“I guarantee if people start looking at other rosters around the league and looking at who their starting Mike linebacker is, there’s not too many guys that you’d say, ‘Ooh, I’d rather have him than Tremaine Edmunds.'”

So what do the Bills see that isn’t visible to the untrained eye, and why do they have such fierce belief in Edmunds’ future?

It begins with where they’ve seen him grow already. Edmunds has become a locker room leader, something they view as integral to the position. He has matured as a run defender and with his instincts. He’s improved with block shedding, using his hands and long arms to his advantage rather than accepting a block with his shoulder.

He’s also incredibly self-aware and isn’t one to shun expert advice. When the Bills invited former Carolina All-Pro linebacker Luke Kuechly to training camp, Edmunds picked his brain. Edmunds also has talked with legendary Bills linebacker Darryl Talley.

 

“I’m always all ears, man,” Edmunds said. “Whatever they have to say, I always take an accountability and just try to apply it to my game the best way that I can. Any guy that has experience and has been there, and you’re trying to get to a certain point, you have to listen to it because their work speaks for itself.”

Said Talley: “He’s learning to get to places before he needs to, learning what people are trying to do to him and what his job is within the scheme. He’s got all the tools. The sky’s the limit for the guy.”

Besides his self-awareness and refined run instincts, the Bills believe Edmunds is simply scratching the surface of being an impact defender in coverage. His size, length and speed give him an advantage, but the team said his coverage instincts are improving as well.

“It affects quarterbacks,” Frazier said. “He and I used to talk about earlier in his career — his first, second year. But I don’t think he quite understood. But now he does, and he’s using that. Just playing quarterback — vision, getting in the passing lane — and he sees how quarterbacks have to hold the ball, because they’re not sure.”

Frazier then raised his arms in the air.

“He can do this, and all of a sudden, he’s 6-foot-7. He’s starting to understand.”

 

That’s apparent on film, too. Flash plays like his interception against Houston in Week 4 get attention. But it’s the other, more subtle things that make him so unusual. Like when he read Washington quarterback Taylor Heinicke’s eyes, leading to quarterback panic and a Jordan Poyer interception to the opposite side of the field. Or by being perfectly positioned in zone coverage to force a quarterback to alter the angle of his throw.

“I think those are the things that people don’t really realize. It’s a game of inches,” Alexander said. “Putting that extra air on the ball allows guys to make plays, and even though he may not get credit for it or you don’t even realize he’s the one who made the quarterback do it, but guys in the locker room and the coaches realize it. That’s why GMs around the league are like, ‘Man, yeah, that dude’s it.'”

“I mean, he’s just … you see his length. He’s unbelievable,” Allen said with a laugh. “You see him standing there, and it’s like, ‘OK, that dude’s big.’ And he moves around. His limbs are so much longer than you’d think. He’s able to jump and move, and he’s super fast. He’s all over the field.”

Even in practice, Allen said he actively tries to avoid the middle of the field because of Edmunds’ presence. And if Allen thinks that way, less-established passers undoubtedly feel the Edmunds effect.

“I can see why it wouldn’t be fun to play against him as well for the other teams because he just … he’s getting smarter,” Allen said.

But once Edmunds reaches that full potential, his age — even if it’s the source of an eye-roll or two because of how frequently it comes up — will make all the difference in the future.

“For a guy who is as young as he is and has already played as much football as he has, you know that the sky is the limit. He has not plateaued at all,” Frazier said. “Those splash plays that we keep talking about, they’re going to come.”

Simply put, the Bills love Edmunds. They likely see him as a significant part of their future, regardless of the noise. He’s a pillar of the defense and a core building block for a team looking to be a perennial contender.

A big reason for that is his inner drive, which again reminds the Bills of their franchise quarterback.

“I appreciate everybody seeing me as that type of player,” Edmunds said of his Pro Bowl selections. “But ultimately, I think the ceiling is even higher for me … because I know my potential and what I can do out there.”

It’s why the Bills didn’t hesitate to give him the fifth-year option for 2022 despite the $12.7 million price tag. As long as he remains on this trajectory, they likely won’t hesitate to sign him to a lucrative contract extension, either.

And if the Bills are right about Edmunds, they could have a star linebacker in the middle of their defense for a long time — and one who isn’t even close to his prime.

“He’s a generational type player,” Alexander said. “To have that youth … in a couple years, he’s going to have played, what, seven years but … still be like 27. He’s going to benefit from having a high football IQ but then still have the athleticism to do everything that he wants to do. And that’s going to take his game to a whole ‘nother level. It’s coming. You can see it.”

 

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If Bills have a half a brain, they would release Edmunds and sign AJ ' the Calvin' Klein for a huge contract. 

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2 hours ago, 212frawk said:

lol

I don't see it, I just don't see a big enough drop off in play to where the FO thinks it's worth paying him between $17-$20mil per year. Which is likely what'd he be looking for and could get on the market. I'm a big fan of his, but I think he's gonna be the odd one out of the guys that gets paid

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2 hours ago, seandelevan said:

Noticed this last year….and people like Daryl said I was crazy

I'm not bad rapping Edmunds it's just that for all of his physical traits he's not as explosive as Klein is.

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Sack "The Buffalo Range's TRUSTED News Source!"

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresden James

Parler @NYexile

 

 

 

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They will keep Klein in the rotation....if they get rid of edmunds he goes somewhere new and becomes a superstar!

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12 hours ago, miamibillsnut said:

If Klein had Edmunds talent, he'd be a monster.

Facts.

Edmunds is built to be a HOF linebacker. He’s just missing the instincts.

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Cant remember which game it was…was one of the first 2-3 games. It was either the telecast or someone breaking down film on Twitter…the opponent scored a TD streaking down the sideline. Edmunds takes the most bizarre angle and hits the dude after he crosses the goal line. The guy breaking down the play clearly showed that if Edmunds took a different angle he would have easily knocked the guy out of bounds at the 5 yard line. Easily. I guess geometry is hard.


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On 11/16/2021 at 5:47 AM, seandelevan said:

Cant remember which game it was…was one of the first 2-3 games. It was either the telecast or someone breaking down film on Twitter…the opponent scored a TD streaking down the sideline. Edmunds takes the most bizarre angle and hits the dude after he crosses the goal line. The guy breaking down the play clearly showed that if Edmunds took a different angle he would have easily knocked the guy out of bounds at the 5 yard line. Easily. I guess geometry is hard.

I remember that. RB running left going down right sidelines to score on tv screen. There have been others where Edmunds does not dive to push him out of bounds when he should have.

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cba fan

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Truth is Trumaine Edmunds plays incredibly bad when injured. At 80% , AJ Klein is a much better option

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I would be curious to hear from Frazier how much more responsibility they put on Edmonds than Klein.

There is no denying the productivity in tackles and turn overs between the two isn’t that great but are they putting Edmonds in a bigger role than Klein which frees up someone else to blitz?
Are they leaving Edmonds to do a job by himself where they need a safety to help Klein out in coverage? 
Is Milano picking up more responsibilities to cover up for Edmonds not being out there where if Edmonds was healthy Milano would be able to make more plays?

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Edmunds is by far our best Run stuffing LB, pretty apparent he was not playing today and we could not stop the run.  Take away our two biggest run defenders and this is what happens.

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