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Jameis Winston compared to Jamarcus Russell

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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/jameis-winston-seen-as-having-same-faults-as-07-bust-jamarcus-russell-b99486128z1-301170101.html

 

Reference to EJ Manuel in the piece as well.

 

Green Bay — The striking similarities between Jameis Winston and JaMarcus Russell must be frightening to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as they weigh making the Florida State quarterback the first pick of the NFL draft.

"With Jameis Winston I see JaMarcus Russell," a longtime executive in personnel said. "They do dumb things. Isn't it interesting?"

Or horrifying, if you're coach Lovie Smith or general manager Jason Licht in Tampa. They know Russell well as the poster child for all-time busts after the Raiders drafted him No. 1 in 2007.

Jimbo Fisher, the Seminoles' head coach during Winston's three-year career, was quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator throughout Russell's four-year career at Louisiana State.

In 22 years of major-college coaching, Fisher's best pro quarterback probably has been former Packers career backup Matt Flynn.

Besides Russell, Fisher prepared Rohan Davey for New England (fourth round) in 2002, Christian Ponder for Minnesota (first round) in 2011 and E.J. Manuel for Buffalo (second round) in 2013. They're failures, too.

Aside from coaching parallels, Winston (6 foot 4, 231 pounds) and Russell (6-5½, 258) share the same type of big, soft bodies and, according to some scouts, the penchant for turning the ball over.

"Lack of focus by JaMarcus is what I see in Winston," the personnel man said. "They're physically talented, but during the course of a game they kind of lose their focus and just put the ball up for grabs.

"I see the body. I see the lack of focus. I see the same coach and system. Only Winston's not as good an athlete and his arm isn't as strong as JaMarcus'."

Russell was done with football after three seasons, a 7-18 record and a passer rating of 65.2.

"We're looking at another guy (Winston) that's a product of the system and has tremendous athletes around him," another personnel man said. "Oh, my goodness.

"Is this guy really going to be the first pick of the draft? You'd be drafting a quarterback that can't run, has off-field problems, has no power in his legs and makes bad decisions on the field.

"Somebody's going to make a horrible mistake."

Since the start of the common draft in 1967, there has been 18 years in which two or more quarterbacks were selected among the first seven picks. In 14 of those years, or 78% of the time, at least one was a bust, and twice two flopped.

All 37 of those quarterbacks entered the league with such high hopes. Sixteen (43.2%) went down as failures.

Winston, of course, isn't the only big-name quarterback. There's always the chance Marcus Mariota of Oregon might go to Tampa Bay. Either way, both should go off among the top seven choices.

The results of a Journal Sentinel survey of 19 NFL executives in personnel this month revealed Winston as much more bust-prone than Mariota.

Scouts were asked to predict what's ahead for the two players. Here were the five categories used to forecast what their careers might hold, and the subsequent responses for each.

All-time great: Mariota one vote, Winston none.

At least one Pro Bowl: Mariota eight, Winston six.

Average starter: Mariota eight, Winston five.

Disappointment: Mariota one, Winston four.

Bust: Mariota one, Winston four.

Of the aforementioned 37 quarterbacks, three already are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame and another, Peyton Manning, is headed there.

Nine won at least one Super Bowl. Three others at least led teams to the Super Bowl.

Mariota receives high marks for athleticism, big-play capability, poise and work ethic. Some scouts regard him as something of a project out of the Ducks' spread attack, but at least a few see potential for greatness.

"If somebody works with him for what he does, he'll be an all-time great," one personnel man said. "He can play in a pro-style (offense), but I don't know why you would want him to do that. What he does is proven to be great in this league."

Many other scouts pan the entire group, being even harder on the paucity of even late-round suspects than Winston and Mariota.

The 19 personnel men agreed to list their top five quarterbacks in order (a first-place was worth five points, a second four and so on).

Mariota nipped Winston in points, 85-84, but Winston had the edge in first-place votes, 10-9.

Following, in order, were Bryce Petty (45 points), Brett Hundley (39), Garrett Grayson (19 ½) and Sean Mannion (12 ½).

The fact 19 voters confined their selections to just six players was different, to say the least. It appeared none of the others even are worthy of being drafted.

"After the first two, you're just rolling the dice and hoping you get a backup or something," one scout said. "None of them are any good."

Complicating the study of Winston was his consistent pattern of misbehavior at Florida State that would be considered intolerable for an NFL team set to pay him millions as the new face of the franchise.

In 2012, Winston was accused of raping a student. Declaring himself innocent, he didn't face criminal charges.

He also was cited for shoplifting $32 worth of crab legs from a supermarket in Tallahassee, Fla., was involved in BB gun incidents and was suspended one game for standing on a table in a university dining hall and screaming a lewd phrase.

At pro day March 31 in Tallahassee, Winston introduced the 17 teammates that would be auditioning with him before dozens of scouts.

"People were saying, 'Oh, he's a leader,'" said one personnel director. "But it was more of a, 'Hey-look-at-me-kind-of-thing,' as opposed to something good for his teammates.

"I just don't like his whole makeup, his whole salesman act. He's all about himself."

Another scout brought it back to Russell, saying, "He's got that same smile that JaMarcus had. They light the room up. That's what Jameis seems to be doing."

Unlike most top quarterbacks in recent years, Winston helped himself a month earlier by participating in throwing drills. The same day, he hurt himself with a slow 40-yard dash (4.96 seconds) and both a vertical jump (28 ½ inches) and broad jump (8-7) that ranked second worst among quarterbacks.

On the field, however, Winston lost just one of 27 starts, becoming the youngest winner of the Heisman Trophy in 2013 and producing a string of dramatic comeback victories with what some scouts view as remarkable competitiveness.

"He doesn't have all-time great talent, but he's just clutch," a personnel man said. "He's pro ready. It's clear-cut to me Winston's the best quarterback in this draft, talent-wise."

Now Lovie Smith and Co. must make a decision that, if it's wrong, probably will get them all fired.


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They seem to be equally dumb.

 

 

Jameis does seem to be a harder worker though. I still can't believe the Raiders took Jamarcus. You could see the epic bust from a mile away.

 

 

As for Jameis I'm not sure if he'll be as big a bust but I also think he'll be one.


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If I'm Tampa, I stick with Glennon and rake a team over the coals for picks to move up to #1.


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i feel a lot better about ej knowing we took him in the second round


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"The word racism is like ketchup. It can be put on practically anything, and demanding evidence makes you a 'racist' " - Thomas Sowell

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Jameis does seem to be a harder worker though.

 

i think u meant mariota


One set of rules for all in the beloved community

"The word racism is like ketchup. It can be put on practically anything, and demanding evidence makes you a 'racist' " - Thomas Sowell

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Winston is a better passer than Russell. I wouldn't take Winston with #1 pick though.


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Jameis is big, black, and played for Jimbo Fisher. Therefore, he's JaMarcus Russell. It's such a laughable comparison. Russell and Jameis both had/have very good physical skillsets, but people questioned JaMarcus' passion at the time. Jameis, on the flip side, is regarded as one of the hardest workers you'll ever see, who spends more time watching film than basically anyone, even while balancing his time with baseball. The physical similarities are there, and those physical similarities are what made JaMarcus such an impressive prospect, but the mental stuff/little things like anticipatory throws are basically complete opposites, and that's why Jameis has graded out as one of the best QB prospects that have come around in a long, long time.

 

Mariota is a good prospect too. Don't think Tampa can go wrong with either one, but Jameis is the best prospect in this draft class IMO.

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There are always stories like this a week before the draft. Some team is probably trying to get him to drop to them. The Bucs will probably pick him anyway.

 

Weird league. I think Mike Glennon and Zach Mettenberger are solid QBs. The Bills could win ten games with either of them under center. If the Bucs and Titans go QB I'd be happy with either of their rejects.

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I think Glennon could be okay for Buffalo, but I don't see him ever being more than a game manager. I think Tampa keeps him as the backup unless they get a 3rd or 4th round pick for him.

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I think James is much smarter than Jamarcus, but he's extremely immature.

 

Growing up is a possibility. Getting smarter--well, there's only so much you can do with what you're given.

 

Winston had a pretty good Wonderlic, from what I've heard.

 

The real problem with FSU and Florida QBs is that they're system QBs, and the system doesn't prepare them to be NFL QBs. They win in college by "out-athleteing" defenses. And they play in very simple systems.

 

Being a successful NFL QB takes fighter pilot spatial awareness skills and reflexes, combined with instant analytical skills, combined with arm talent and athleticism, combined with work ethic, leadership and self-confidence.

 

That's why GMs who think they can just get by with athletes are idiots.


"Every single day I went out there I tried to have respect for the game and I played as hard as I possibly could." Derek Jeter 9/25/14

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This comparison is just a racist comparison. They are both big and black and have been in trouble in the past... THEY ARE SIMILAR!


"Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."

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This comparison is just a racist comparison.

 

Bullshit.

 

The exact same thing has been said about white QBs from U of Miami and especially Spurrier system QBs from Florida for decades.


"Every single day I went out there I tried to have respect for the game and I played as hard as I possibly could." Derek Jeter 9/25/14

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Bullshit.

 

The exact same thing has been said about white QBs from U of Miami and especially Spurrier system QBs from Florida for decades.

 

That they're JaMarcus Russell?

 

I think it's an extremely lazy comparison personally. He's much, much more similar to Ben Roethlisberger than he is to JaMarcus Russell. Like I explained before, he and Russell are pretty much opposites when it comes to the mental approach, which is probably like 60-70% of what makes a good QB.

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That they're JaMarcus Russell?

 

I think it's an extremely lazy comparison personally. He's much, much more similar to Ben Roethlisberger than he is to JaMarcus Russell. Like I explained before, he and Russell are pretty much opposites when it comes to the mental approach, which is probably like 60-70% of what makes a good QB.

 

No, that they will fail in the NFL.

 

With black QBs, it's more about style of play, because in certain programs, QBs who are extremely athletic are successful, yet not called upon to develop the kind of analytical skills that prepare a QB for success in the NFL.

 

You're full of shit if you don't see the connection between many black QBs and that style of play.

 

With the Florida/FSU/Miami QBs, it was often more about taking advantage of skill player speed and mismatches, but the same held true--these schools were poor training grounds for potential NFL QBs.

 

What's extremely lazy is whining about racism 24 hours a fucking day. And it's dangerous, because it creates such a din, that real examples of racism get lost in it.


"Every single day I went out there I tried to have respect for the game and I played as hard as I possibly could." Derek Jeter 9/25/14

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No, that they will fail in the NFL.

 

With black QBs, it's more about style of play, because in certain programs, QBs who are extremely athletic are successful, yet not called upon to develop the kind of analytical skills that prepare a QB for success in the NFL.

 

You're full of shit if you don't see the connection between many black QBs and that style of play.

 

With the Florida/FSU/Miami QBs, it was often more about taking advantage of skill player speed and mismatches, but the same held true--these schools were poor training grounds for potential NFL QBs.

 

What's extremely lazy is whining about racism 24 hours a fucking day. And it's dangerous, because it creates such a din, that real examples of racism get lost in it.

 

What does any of what you just said have to do with Jameis, who everyone is lauding for his ability to play in a pro-style offense at Florida State? It sounds more like you're saying that Marcus Mariota will fail in the NFL.

 

I don't understand how you even started talking about athletic QBs that come from spread offenses when that was neither Russell or Winston's games.

 

Personally, I don't think it's racist that guys are always compared to people of their own skin color; it's just stupidity.

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OK

 

Jameis Winston is Ryan Leaf.

 

Now, I'm not being racist.

 

And he still sucks.


Ed Oliver is my adopt-a-Bill

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What does any of what you just said have to do with Jameis, who everyone is lauding for his ability to play in a pro-style offense at Florida State? It sounds more like you're saying that Marcus Mariota will fail in the NFL.

 

I don't understand how you even started talking about athletic QBs that come from spread offenses when that was neither Russell or Winston's games.

 

Personally, I don't think it's racist that guys are always compared to people of their own skin color; it's just stupidity.

 

I actually do think Marcus Mariota will fail in the NFL.

 

If you can't grasp what I'm saying, I can't help you. The trend toward "athletic QBs" in college football has led to a flood of athletic busts at the NFL level. Someone reaching for an example of an athletic bust will naturally reach for a spectacular failure, and Jamarcus Russell is that.

 

I started talking about athletic QBs because, guess what, most QBs referred to that way are black. Maybe you're just pretending to be stupid for PC reasons. At the end of the day, it just makes you stupid.

 

It's really not rocket science that QBs who run pro style offenses in college have a tremendous advantage over QBs who don't.


"Every single day I went out there I tried to have respect for the game and I played as hard as I possibly could." Derek Jeter 9/25/14

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Jamies Winston is NOTHING like Roethlisberger.

 

Well, other then the RAPE part.


Ed Oliver is my adopt-a-Bill

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Bullshit.

 

The exact same thing has been said about white QBs from U of Miami and especially Spurrier system QBs from Florida for decades.

 

Winston is nothing like JaMarcus lol. THEY ARE BLACK AND BIG AND HAVE ISSUES. THEY MUST BE THE SAME. Winston is faster, willing to put in the work, far more talented, an actual leader, I do not see at all how he is like Russell. The writing was all over the wall for Russell to be a huge bust.


"Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."

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The guy starts out with this thoughtful and introspective opinion... ""With Jameis Winston I see JaMarcus Russell," a longtime executive in personnel said. "They do dumb things. Isn't it interesting?"

 

YES, ISN'T THAT INTERESTING GUYS!? Lol.


"Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."

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The guy starts out with this thoughtful and introspective opinion... ""With Jameis Winston I see JaMarcus Russell," a longtime executive in personnel said. "They do dumb things. Isn't it interesting?"

 

YES, ISN'T THAT INTERESTING GUYS!? Lol.

 

And factual?


"Every single day I went out there I tried to have respect for the game and I played as hard as I possibly could." Derek Jeter 9/25/14

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