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HipKat

Trump supporters cry bitter tears

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30 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

What "socialism" are you so afraid of?

Do you even read history bro? Socialism implemented on a wide scale always leads to Communism and we know how that always turns out.

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2 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

Do you even read history bro? Socialism implemented on a wide scale always leads to Communism and we know how that always turns out.

Said by a citizen of a quasi-Socialist political system.....

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2 minutes ago, HipKat said:

Said by a citizen of a quasi-Socialist political system.....

See the other thread. We live in a Capitalist society with Socialist elements.

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6 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

See the other thread. We live in a Capitalist society with Socialist elements.

I know, I listed them twice on here. Your side throws the word Socialism around too easily as a generalized fear tactic instead of actually dissecting the parts of Socialism we already depend on and the parts that we need to avoid

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33 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

See the other thread. We live in a Capitalist society with Socialist elements.

So let's have the socialist elements of healthcare, higher education and childcare. What's the problem?

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Just now, f8ta1ity54 said:

So let's have the socialist elements of healthcare, higher education and childcare. What's the problem?

The problem is it costs money - too much for the government to pay for and they'll pass the costs onto the Middle Class.

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29 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

The problem is it costs money - too much for the government to pay for and they'll pass the costs onto the Middle Class.

So if money wasnt an issue, you believe these things would help society?

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31 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

The problem is it costs money - too much for the government to pay for and they'll pass the costs onto the Middle Class.

But the Progressive want to pass it onto the rich and you guys have an issue with that

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4 minutes ago, HipKat said:

But the Progressive want to pass it onto the rich and you guys have an issue with that

They dont mention money when the military budget balloons up every year.

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19 minutes ago, HipKat said:

But the Progressive want to pass it onto the rich and you guys have an issue with that

They SAY they want to but we all know who is REALLY going to pay for it.

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Just now, SackMan518 said:

They SAY they want to but we all know who is REALLY going to pay for it.

Well what they don't say is the the rich have ways to avoid those taxes anyway but in the same realm, those Trump tax cuts also get paid for by the Middle class

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2 hours ago, SackMan518 said:

They SAY they want to but we all know who is REALLY going to pay for it.

Who is the "they"?

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2 hours ago, HipKat said:

Well what they don't say is the the rich have ways to avoid those taxes anyway but in the same realm, those Trump tax cuts also get paid for by the Middle class

Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest.

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Just now, f8ta1ity54 said:

Who is the "they"?

The politicians (hint Blue) who are pushing these programs.

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Just now, SackMan518 said:

The politicians (hint Blue) who are pushing these programs.

So you think that the "blue" politicians want to turn the US into a communist state to seize power?

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You also never answered my question sack. Do you agree with these programs, but you're hung up on cost?

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17 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

So you think that the "blue" politicians want to turn the US into a communist state to seize power?

In short, yes. Their whole platform is based on Communism whether they realize it or not meanwhile they're taking big dollars from the corporations and the rich while thinking they'll be completely immune from the switch. Just look at what everyone is running on and tell me it's not. Plus they go further in taking it to cultural and societal changes.

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18 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

You also never answered my question sack. Do you agree with these programs, but you're hung up on cost?

Many of the programs they posit I could get behind on a TEMPORARY basis ala social services.

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Interesting graph here, but sadly, it's a little dated

fortune5-4074.png

And an interesting article:

Wall Street fires a warning shot to the Democratic party
 

Democratic donors on Wall Street and in big business are preparing to sit out the presidential campaign fundraising cycle —
or even back President Donald Trump — if Sen. Elizabeth Warren wins the party’s nomination.

In recent weeks, CNBC spoke to several high-dollar Democratic donors and fundraisers in the business community
and found that this opinion was becoming widely shared as Warren, an outspoken critic of big banks and corporations,
gains momentum against Joe Biden in the 2020 race.

“You’re in a box because you’re a Democrat and you’re thinking, ‘I want to help the party,
but she’s going to hurt me, so I’m going to help President Trump,’” said a senior private equity executive,
who spoke on condition of anonymity in fear of retribution by party leaders.

During the campaign, Warren has put out multiple plans intended
to curb the influence of Wall Street, including a wealth tax.
In July, she released a proposal that would make private equity firms responsible for
debts and pension obligations of companies they buy.

Biden, who has courted and garnered the support of various wealthy donors, has started to lag in some polls.

The business community’s unease about Warren’s candidacy has surged in tandem with her campaign’s momentum.
CNBC’s Jim Cramer said earlier this month that he’s heard from Wall Street executives that they believe Warren has “got to be stopped.”
Warren later tweeted her response to Cramer’s report:
“I’m Elizabeth Warren and I approve this message.”

Some big bank executives and hedge fund managers have been stunned by Warren’s ascent, and they are primed to resist her.

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42 minutes ago, SackMan518 said:

In short, yes. Their whole platform is based on Communism whether they realize it or not meanwhile they're taking big dollars from the corporations and the rich while thinking they'll be completely immune from the switch. Just look at what everyone is running on and tell me it's not. Plus they go further in taking it to cultural and societal changes.

Bernie doesnt take money from big corporations. I have never seen him argue for communism, anywhere, any time, ever. I have seen him advocate for more power to the people however.

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2 minutes ago, f8ta1ity54 said:

Bernie doesnt take money from big corporations. I have never seen him argue for communism, anywhere, any time, ever. I have seen him advocate for more power to the people however.

You do realize that Socialism is the first step towards Communism right? Do you think they're just going to stop at Socialism and not keep going?

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1 minute ago, SackMan518 said:

You do realize that Socialism is the first step towards Communism right? Do you think they're just going to stop at Socialism and not keep going?

This is an assertion you keep making. You think we are going to turn into china or something? Isn't that why you have all your guns? This is just a baseless and paranoid argument..

Raising taxes on the 1% and corporations is communism? 

Cutting out the middle man and insuring everyone is communism?

Can you bridge the gap for me where we get from taking care of all americans to a totalitarian communist state?

How do you reconcile with the fact your boy WANTS to be a dictator? Lol

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What is the difference between Communism and Socialism?

Communism and socialism are umbrella terms referring to two left-wing schools of economic thought; both oppose capitalism. These ideologies have inspired various social and political movements since the 19th century. Several countries have been or are currently governed by parties calling themselves communist or socialist,
though these parties' policies and rhetoric vary widely.

 

As an ideology, communism is generally regarded as hard-left, making fewer concessions to market capitalism and electoral democracy than do most forms of socialism. As a system of government, communism tends to center on a one-party state that bans most forms of political dissent. These two usages of the term "communism" – one referring to theory, the other to politics as they are practiced – need not overlap: China's ruling Communist Party has an explicitly pro-market capitalist orientation and pays only lip service to the Maoist ideology whose purist adherents (Peru's Shining Path in its heyday, for example) regard Chinese authorities as bourgeois counterrevolutionaries. 

 

Socialism can refer to a vast swath of the political spectrum, in theory and in practice. Its intellectual history is more varied than that of communism: "The Communist Manifesto," an 1848 pamphlet by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, devotes a chapter to criticizing the half-dozen forms of socialism already in existence at the time, and proponents have taken just about every left-of-center stance on the ideal (or best achievable) structure of economic and political systems.

 

Socialists can be pro- or anti-market. They may consider the ultimate goal to be revolution and the abolition of social classes, or they may seek more pragmatic outcomes: universal healthcare, for example, or a universal pension scheme. Social Security is a socialist policy that has been adopted in the unabashedly capitalist United States (as are the eight-hour working day, free public education and arguably universal suffrage). Socialists may run for election, forming coalitions with non-socialist parties, as they do in Europe, or they may govern as authoritarians, as the Chavista regime does in Venezuela.

 

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1 minute ago, HipKat said:

What is the difference between Communism and Socialism?

Communism and socialism are umbrella terms referring to two left-wing schools of economic thought; both oppose capitalism. These ideologies have inspired various social and political movements since the 19th century. Several countries have been or are currently governed by parties calling themselves communist or socialist,
though these parties' policies and rhetoric vary widely.

 

As an ideology, communism is generally regarded as hard-left, making fewer concessions to market capitalism and electoral democracy than do most forms of socialism. As a system of government, communism tends to center on a one-party state that bans most forms of political dissent. These two usages of the term "communism" – one referring to theory, the other to politics as they are practiced – need not overlap: China's ruling Communist Party has an explicitly pro-market capitalist orientation and pays only lip service to the Maoist ideology whose purist adherents (Peru's Shining Path in its heyday, for example) regard Chinese authorities as bourgeois counterrevolutionaries. 

 

Socialism can refer to a vast swath of the political spectrum, in theory and in practice. Its intellectual history is more varied than that of communism: "The Communist Manifesto," an 1848 pamphlet by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, devotes a chapter to criticizing the half-dozen forms of socialism already in existence at the time, and proponents have taken just about every left-of-center stance on the ideal (or best achievable) structure of economic and political systems.

 

Socialists can be pro- or anti-market. They may consider the ultimate goal to be revolution and the abolition of social classes, or they may seek more pragmatic outcomes: universal healthcare, for example, or a universal pension scheme. Social Security is a socialist policy that has been adopted in the unabashedly capitalist United States (as are the eight-hour working day, free public education and arguably universal suffrage). Socialists may run for election, forming coalitions with non-socialist parties, as they do in Europe, or they may govern as authoritarians, as the Chavista regime does in Venezuela.

 

I'm not a socialist. I believe our economic system is currently way out of whack. We need a more regulated form of capitalism. We need to invest in our people and take care of them. Which is a crazy argument to make with alot of these bible thumpers on here. The cognitive dissonance is undeniable. Giving more power to the people is not communism by definition. I think alot of these right wingers are just trained to use these trigger words. It's like they are brainwashed into believing things that are against their best interests.

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The Relationship Between Socialism & Communism

 

Karl Marx, a 19th-century political philosopher and a father of communism, believed that socialism was a natural outgrowth of capitalism. In effect, he believed that the drive for profits would lead capitalists to exploit workers in the lower classes, and these workers would rise up and establish a more egalitarian society. While the distinction between socialism and communism is often debated, in general, communism is often considered a higher and more advanced form of socialism.

Commonalities of Socialism and Communism

Socialism and communism are both economic systems in which the public owns the means of production. The means of production include the raw materials and means of labor, such as machines and tools, used in production processes. Under both systems the state also engages in centralized planning; in a planned or command economy, business activities and resource allocation are controlled by the state, ostensibly for the greater good.

The First Step
Vladimir Lenin, who led the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in 1917, saw communism as a "higher stage" of socialism. Socialism, in this line of thinking, was the first step toward a new society after the inevitable collapse of capitalism. Eventually socialism, considered a first, necessary step, would develop into communism. It is important to note that the United States, like nearly all modern capitalist economies, contains some elements of socialism, including public schools, Social Security benefits and public works projects -- collectivist services that are run by the state, not the free market. The difference between capitalist and socialist economies is often not binary, but rather one of degree.

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